The Internet’s Big sister, Toni TONE - Ep 31

Welcome to a My Too Loud The Podcast. Hey guys, welcome back to a My Too Loud The Podcast with Sophie, aka the Motherf**king Audity. This is like, I guess that. When I first started my podcast, she was the first name I wrote that I had to have as a guest on the podcast. Like, did she just say, could she just say, could she just say, sorry, sorry, sorry. If you're not a voice, then ignore, don't ignore, keep going, but this is the first person I wrote. Like, I had to interview and I didn't grow up with a big sister. In fact, you guys know my family history. I have my brother who's 10 years older than me. And so when I was in America navigating adulthood and everything like that, this was my big sister. And I don't think she knows this, but this is something that I don't think I've ever been said to your face. I generally would have notifications on on your Twitter and on your socials just so I can hear what you had to say, read what you had to say was in some way it felt like this was the big sister that I didn't have. And now I try as much as possible for my content to remember to say, okay, if I was younger me, how am I going to be a big sister for other people? And I think even when I was trying to come up with things to talk about with this episode, everything just came up was like, this is your sister. Like you share so many incredible, like powerful stuff for young girls, especially young black girls out there. And it's so special. You do with such fucking grace. Like it's just like, like you just, you oppose it, you grace and humility and just bad asterie. Like I was so nervous. I was like, oh my god, I need to be so prepared for this. Mind you in my head were like besties, right? But I love her so much, but ladies and gents and odd fam and everyone listening, Tony fucking tone. Oh, you're going to make me tear up, so that was such a sweet hug. My cancer sister. I'm happy to be here. No, thanks for coming on here. I'm so flattered. No, please. Oh, Tony is so sweet. I wish you guys, like there's certain creators that you meet and we met in DC for the first time a few years back. And you were so sweet. Like that was it. Like I've been through such crazy ass people on the internet that met and I mentioned I was like, oh, she's kind. Like you're kind. Like at the core of it, you sort of give like kind and like I will hold people can see that through your content. And like of course you're as smart as Fudge, but like at the core of it, you're kind of you care about us. I try. I try to. Yeah, and it's very reflective of that. So I had to show you so much love. Hi, welcome to the audience. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad you came. Yeah, I'm so excited. Actually I missed this. I was like, you know what? I have to find a way to be here. It just, I don't know. I just want to say like, even like planning out so nervous, reaching out about wanting to do the podcast. Because I'm like, you're so big, like you're so like, you're so famous, like girl, I want you. I want to be on my blog. You know what? I feel like how I see myself and how people describe me sometimes, it doesn't. Yeah. Connolly. Like. What are you talking about? No, you're famous. You're famous. You're famous. We famous together then. Yeah. No, I'm so excited. It's going to be a fun conversation. When I first started, Tony's the first person I asked if there are any things that she wouldn't want like to be said, I don't want it because like I, in my head, I just, I just found girl over you. So I want to make sure I get this right. And in just Tony like fashion, she was just like, girl, I say everything online. And that's me too. Like, I'm just like, if it's anything that you probably ask me, I've probably made it exciting. And so before I kick off by asking you like to introduce yourself to folks, I have a few things that you've said online that at once you are immediate reactions to to kick off the episode. That's awesome. That's all just this stuff. Not too old. Not too old. But first one is I live life like I can't fail. As far as I'm concerned, things will always work out in my favor. In my mind, even in circumstances, take a turn. It's one that will help me in the long run. It's a delusion I refuse to let go of because it's been attracting great things to my life. Facts. How in God's name did you think about that? I'm like, own it. I feel like people like to yapa yapa online and like they don't mean it, they're just type stuff. But I know for a fucking fact, that's exactly how you feel. That is exactly how I feel. I guess it comes from like seeing things maybe when I was younger, not go my way and then things end up better having not gone my way. So I guess that fed the, it's not even delusion now. It's purely faith. That fed the belief that, you know what? If something is not going right, it's not going right because it's going to contribute to something that is going to go better. Like if, and I've seen it with everything, whether it's like heartbreak that led to me becoming an author, or whether it's like a relationship breakups that led to me finding like my person, everything has fed into something bigger for me. So in my head, it's like, I can't lose. Like the game is rigged in my favor. I just need to be able to process it that way. And I think, and it's not even like an individual thing. I think for many people, things happen for them, not to them, right? But so many people get stuck on the two. They think, oh, why is this horrible thing happening to me? And they do it on it, and they focus on it. And they lose sight of everything else that is meant to fall in place as a result of this horrible thing happening. But I guess I've just kind of reframed my thinking. So when something bad happens, I'm like, okay, what's the reason for this? What am I supposed to do with this information? Am I supposed to share this? My space right about this is going to feed into something like, that's where it came from. I just feel like everything is working in my favor. I just need to figure out how to put the pieces together. That's it. I'm going to be like, how's your weirdo just geeking and looking at you. I just want you. So whenever I, everything you just said, I like to explain it as like, you can't fail. You only learn from failure. So when someone asks me like, oh, I'm like, what if I fail? And I'm like, if you constantly try, you're not failing. Like there's no, there's never a saying to that. If you're just going to keep going, you just say so eloquent. That's what I was like watching. I should just say, like, yeah, that guy says exactly right. Clip it, Donald. That's what it's going on TikTok. But we're so right. I think we tend to give up a lot. And I see that in like younger kids growing up, especially with social media, because failure or trying is so public now. A lot of people don't want to be seen, not doing their best or being their best. And I always like to argue, who decides what even your best is? If it's not just you. Even if you're figuring things out, figure it out on your terms, you're learning as you go. You allow to make mistakes, as long as you're working towards something. Exactly. Now I completely agree with that. Here you go. That's what makes it a good episode. OK, another one you said is in an ideal world, you want to be fully healed before jumping into love. What does it mean to be fully healed and is it even possible? My own popular opinion is that you can be in the process of healing and can still foster happy relationships. Just be honest with yourself and others. Yes, I completely agree. I think that sometimes, and I think I fall victim to this when I was younger, like believing that, oh, to be in a new relationship, you had to be 100% really fully healed. But when I said, like, what does it look like? What does it look like? Because none of us are fully healed. None of us, even we might be 98% and 99% of the way there are best, but there'll always be a fraction of us that are still a little traumatized. And I don't want to say broken, but it's still a little hurt from things related to the past or things out of our control. And it's like, if we wait to get to the state of perfection, will we ever find love? Because perfection doesn't actually exist, right? You have to be willing to embrace your flaws and your journey and the pain you may or may not be holding on to. Embrace those things and acknowledge them with the understanding that, look, I can experience these things and still be open to love and loving someone, like, even with me and my fiance, when I met him, do I feel like I was in a healthy place? Yes, but do I feel like I was fully, fully healed? No. Even joke, even to this day, sometimes I might do something and he was like, you know, he'll just be like, who hurt you in the past? I'm like, damn, I really have a lot of work to do. Like, that's his way of joking, like, damn, like you clearly cling onto a bit of her. And I think I even said on my podcast once upon a time, there was a clip that I shared where I had to explain to people that it was effort for me to embrace the vulnerability with him. Like, my default was very much, oh, this is pissing me off. I'm going to go and say, we're going to have a leave. I don't have time for this, right? And it could be something small. And with him, I'd be like, no, I really want this man. I love this man. I appreciate this man. He's a good man. I need to fight that feeling. Now, if I was waiting to be fully healed, I would never have been with him because there was still that part of me that was unwilling to be patient with someone. So, yeah, so that's what I mean. I think that a good partner will actually help to speed up that healing process. Should you look to them for your healing, though? It's your responsibility. But they will support you in that process. OK, I feel like you've lived the life I am currently living or we're living our lives. And I feel like I texted you, or maybe I just gave up and was like, I'm just going to ask you this when we finally get lunch. Because everything you just said right now was a situation that was in. And I just couldn't wrap my head around. Someone telling me they weren't healed. And they wanted to figure it out. And it feeling like, I want to help. Yes, I'm the helper, kind of thing, related to them. My therapy is to tell me, so if you don't have to be needed, like sometimes you just allow people to figure it out themselves. And I won't always be like, how can I help? How can I do this? So listening to you talk down my phone, there was a lot of work I actually do internally for myself. That's myself, like, how am I feeling the need to save people or try to heal people? Really? Oh, my mom. That's why I went past it. Hold on. Because she's going to keep calling. If you know African mother, mommy, sound like, and I'll call you back. I'm filming. I love you guys. It wasn't do not disturb, but she will call me five times. Like, that's how you know she's been calling because she went past it. And it's on WhatsApp. So I didn't know what's up. I've loved you do that. That is too short. And she will call my other phone too and call my best friend, because I'm also not. That's too big. I'm a nomad now. So she's like, yeah, she's like, where are you? And I'm just, I'm ready to share my location here. I'm like, oh, she doesn't even have anything. She knows. I'm like, location isn't like, we're exactly right now. Oh, I know. Because that woman will find a way to find someone to come find me there. It's just a big show. I'm okay. I get, I get exactly what you're saying. Is this a lot? Oh, we have a lot to chat about. I'm telling you like, give me like separately off off the record. Because I always feel like I want to pick your brain so much because you have such an intentional way of seeing yourself and yourself worth in comparison to like relationships and stuff like that too. There's something I like a lot of young girls struggle with, especially as we're growing up. So she is. I'm learning that. Okay. This is an old one. This is from 2018. Okay. But most men don't marry the women. They love the most. We know this one. They marry the one that is around when they're ready to marry. I saw this shared an Instagram. I wanted to see some male opinions on this, but I wanted to actually know why you, what your thoughts are in this one is the statement completely false. So does it hold some truth when you tweeted that I've had conversations happen. It was 2018. People just talk about it. So 25 and five. I know people are still talking about that. That's scarred a lot of people, a lot of women were upset. They scarred a lot of people, but funnily enough, it didn't scar me. I think it's because when I asked them for their opinion, I had access to both sides of the coin. I had access to the opinions. It's always the bad stuff that goes viral, right? So when I was sharing the great ones and I was sharing the bad ones, it's the bad ones everyone wants to freak out about, but they're not necessarily retweeting the good ones. But there were men who were like, yes, this is so true. My wife is lovely and I love her, but I love to someone else more and I fumbled her. It's a crazy thing to say. Yes, I know very crazy. There were guys that were like, oh, I wasn't in love with my wife, but she was a good woman. I knew that she'd cook, she'd clean, she'd take care of the kids. And I married her for that reason. There were men who were like, oh, I was getting old, I didn't want to be alone. And I just married the school because I knew she'd like me for ages. But on the flip side, there were men that were like, I married my dream woman. I met the school and I was like, this is my everything. There were men who are like, I love this girl from day one. There were men who were like, I wasn't ready to marry when she wanted to marry, but I had to summon up intentionality because there was no way I was going to fumble this woman. I was going to lose this woman. I married the love of my life. So do I, do I think it's at the time? What did I think? Because I was asking what people thought. Do I think it was most men? No. I think it's many men. I don't think it's most. I think it's many. I think if I had to assume, I'd probably say about 50, 50 and I 50 still a scary number. But I think to be controversial, a lot of women do this too. I think there are a lot of women who aren't married to the men that they love the most or loved the most, but they married men who they felt like, oh, he's a good choice. It's stable. Yes, he's stable. It would be a good father. Yes, we want stability, but we also want stability and love, right? That's the idea. Do you have both? Helen? Can you have both? Oh, yeah. I have both. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think having both also comes with having maturity because I think that you can never have both if you're an immature person because you will see stability as boring. Stability will not entice you. So what assumes stability means absence of, stability means absence of passion. But when you are mature in the way you navigate love, you understand that actually stability and passion can coexist and there's passion in being grounded in your person feeling like home. Like that's one of the most passionate things, I think, like finding home in a person. But if you're emotionally immature, you think this is boring, this is, we don't argue. It's not spicy. I'm bored. And you might think the person you love the most was the roller coaster relationship because it pulled all your emotions out of you. When in reality, you just aren't emotionally mature enough to value the stability of a healthy relationship. So yeah, you can definitely have both, but you need to be mature to appreciate the both together. Yeah. That's so great. I also think about it from like the perspective of how we grow up, right? Because for a lot of times, men are race, sort of be providers financially chasing that financial goal. And then for women, it's like, earth is for my culture, our culture is finished school, even if some people know if it's into school, get married, be a mother, and that's it. So in that situation, if a man is coming to you, you're like, well, that's all I'm supposed to be doing. And I see that now, thankfully, in 2025, it's shifting where you have independent women. Like I just saw our research studies show that in America, at least, like, there's more kids being born for 40 plus older women. Yeah, I saw that. And that put a smile on my face. Me too. I'm 36. I put a massive smile on my face. I saw someone who hasn't started. I'm like, yeah, great. Yeah, we've got time. Because we've been told that like, you know, your early 20s is when you're supposed to be the baby pumping machine. Yeah. And this is like, no knocks to folks who, you know, get married earlier, give birth early. But the idea is like, that's when you're supposed to have the family and all that stuff. And I'm like, my early 20s, I did not know who I was. I told you. I told you. Like even now, I'm 28, guys, like, I don't know what I'm doing, like, half the time I'm trying to figure this shit out. Yeah, I'm the 8th. And people think I know what I'm doing. I'm still trying to figure stuff out. Oh, yeah. It's so magic. And then when we see our moms who are like, now who, then we're just surviving. Yes. And we have so much blame and so much shame that they carry. And I always oftentimes wonder, like, hmm, I wonder what would have been like for them. If they actually took the time to learn who they were, what they wanted, how to love how to get loved. I wonder what the difference would have been. Yeah. So it's very interesting. It is very interesting. And I feel like my, I guess parental position is kind of unique in that my mom got married at an age, which was considered late for her time. She got married at 29. I'm going to marry at 27. Oh, yeah. So I feel like my mom kind of doesn't have the, I wish I kind of knew what life would be like. And when she was 25, flying from Nigeria to London to go to the top shop to, to be going out and having fun talking to like, my mom was living life. And I think that fed into my perspective because she never forced me or pressured me to get married, have babies or do anything early. But yeah, for the majority, I think of unfortunately for the majority of Nigerian mothers who are parents, age, it wasn't like that. Yeah. So when you're talking, I remember I was watching episode of your mom and just seeing you go out with your mom. And it drew parallel to my mom. And on the episode, my mom is coming to the episode at, my mom at the current moment is a super religious 65 year old woman who, once you came on the episode, a lot of the comments I got was they could tell I was the version of her who chose herself. Wow. And so I see that a lot with her and it's something that like, of course, I know she chose the path that she thinks or she wants to say is her right path right now. And there's nothing like anyone can do to change that. But I remember when she was on the episodes talking, she used to live in the UK. And I remember she just told the story about how she wasn't sure she left the UK to come back to Nigeria, but she is the first child of 21 kids, 21, she was like the one who like my grandpa had sent away. And then everyone was like, she's a terrible child. She's not married. Yeah. Her siblings are giving birth. Like, there was a lot of pressure from this Muslim year by family. So she came back and her entire life just became serious siblings, right? And so I saw I saw her shrink slowly over the years, even when I was born at 37 and through this person that, of course, I recognize I'm, I love my mom and you guys have heard her story. But when I see her mom, I was smiling when I saw that. And I remember saying to my mom, like, I think he would be like her. If you didn't, she was like, Oh, I'll be like, that's a little girl. I'm positive. You are your job. We're not going anywhere. I'm talking about going on a cruise, please. But you can tell like the joy in her when she sees stuff like that, when she's like, I can tell she, she loves that women are age or living life and having fun in that way. I love that. But I also see it a part of her that just like, she wishes. She wishes she had that fun or that freedom, but she never saw my dear. She was supposed to go to the Bahamas with her friends to like, for the first time, never seen my mom hang out with people. She was good and then she changed her mind. Oh, she changed her mind. No, she's not going to tell me. I'm going to shut her down. At least I'm going to say it. But like, it's those stuff like that that I'm trying to get her to be like, it's okay. It's my brother now has kids. So she's like, Oh, my grandkids have to go watch them. You don't. Yeah, you don't. If they will pay for it, I need them. If they will pay for it, I need them. Yeah. Like, I'm learning. Yeah. Like, you don't have to look it up. Even if it wasn't me, it's just that, by the pool just looking. Yeah. Like, have experiences now. Like, what's older is important. So I see that. I love that. I love that. Just the position of what that was. Okay. It was just a good solid start, guys. And we have a lot to cover. So I'm really excited. So Tony, tell us about who you are. How did Tony Tone start? Like where the name come from? Is that your full name? How did you start even tweeting? Because I know you're from Twitter. Yeah. And then not boy, you're everything, you're author, you're pioneering, you're creative, you're a business woman, you're a podcaster, you're everything. And for that, at some point, you're going to have your TV show. You really have a show, you should have had a show. Millions of shows coming in. I think I'll do it here. I will see. But tell us. Tell us. How did it start? Okay. So Tony is my real name. That's my real first name. My tone is not my surname. It's just a pseudonym. And that just came off the back of him. I had so many nicknames growing up, but that was just off the back of the group, Tony Tone, that my dad really loved. Oh. And so sometimes they would say, oh, Tony Tone, Tony Tone, and I was like, okay, that works as my pseudonym. So I just kind of rolled with it. I didn't really think anything of it. You know, when you kind of like just have a nickname and you just roll with it, then it ends up being your brand. Wow. Wow. Okay. So I guess I'm stuck with it now. So that's how the name started, but my first name, my real name, government name is Tony. And as far as my career, it was a bit of like serendipity as a result of heartbreak. And this is why I always say heartbreak can be very powerful if you utilize it appropriately. So I was always on social media. I've been on social media since 2011, so like the inception, sorry, Instagram, since the inception of Instagram. And back in the day, I was like a Facebook girlie. So yeah, when Instagram launched, I was on Instagram and I would post pictures and stuff casually, but I wasn't trying to be a content creator or anything like that. And then I had a few followers, but nothing that would like warrant, like chasing it as a career. And I was in a relationship at one point in my 20s. The relationship didn't work out. And I was filled with frustration and lots of angst and annoyance, a little bit of resentment, all those emissions. And I just needed to channel them. And for whatever reason, I decided to take to Twitter. I had a Twitter when I was in my first year of college, and I activated it. Yeah. This is not really productive. It was right. Yeah. And then for whatever reason, I reactivated it. And I was just. Typing away. Typing away. And at that point, we weren't even like fully, fully closed off. It was like on and off. And we were on, I don't know what, what we called it, the time of break. And I always advise against breaks now. I'm like, you break up and you stay together, but we were on a messy type of break. And I was just so frustrated, so I was tweeting. And that break eventually turned into a break up and through that I was tweeting. And my tweets just kept going viral. And I was like, wait, I'm tweeting and using this as a journal to deal with my like emotional pain that I'm too scared to confront alone. And people are relating to this. So I guess like this is, like I'm not dealing with this solo, this is a common experience. And obviously in my head, I had a breakups or a common experience, but not in the way I was articulating them. I'm like, why are you, you feel, the way I'm feeling, you feel this way about this. And then from there, I said, okay, this is bigger than just me at this point. It's not an online journal. I'm just going to write for the girlies, like write about my frustrations, write about relationships, write about men, write about all sorts. And my audience was my younger version, like young women who were like me trying to navigate life and relationships. I was just tweeting. Then yeah, my Twitter blew up and I was taking my tweets from Twitter and cross posting them. That was really smart. Yeah. I'm so glad I did that. And it's also good because when I don't have content like pictures, I'm just like, yeah. I studied your parents. I did. Yeah, girls. Like how was she doing that? It made so much sense because a lot of creators, like with video and stuff, they still were trying to adapt, but you made it yours. You made it your thing still. And I love that you do that with the post. Oh, thank you. I tried. And then yeah, so yeah, my Twitter blew up and then I was offered a book deal, a lady called Nancy. I did more reach out to me by email and was like, if you have thought of writing a book. And I thought it was a scam at first. I was like, he's trying to scam me and I showed my mom and she's like, Tony and girl, this is like legit, went back to her, gave her my idea. She loved it. Harper Collins picked it up, wrote the book, it became a best seller. And then yeah, I got offered another book deal and then the rest is history and then, yeah, it became my brand. I was like, okay, I'm a content creator now and I'm an author and this is this is my thing. Wow. So the biggest thing about your content is there's a lack of shame there. I know that's a very interesting perspective to bring up. For black women, dating has to be perfect. Yeah. Like we're only a success story if you're married with the kids. Like you're no allow to go through the dating and the heartbreak or the hurts or any of that publicly. Yeah. You tend to be like, when you're sharing your friends, you don't want to tell your friends like the boys being messy or the girls being messy. Yeah. You tend to just like wait till it's really good and share that. Yeah. So how did you get past that part of things to be like, I still want to share what I'm going through. Worth is just I want to share because I know a lot of women who can relate to your stuff but they wouldn't even want to bring it up or say it themselves. Yeah. No, that's fair. It's funny you should ask that. So I have a book coming out this year called No Fuck's Given and it's a zero accountability guide to getting over a boy and I think that's the crux of it. Like just at the time, just like not giving it back in the sense and I'm sorry to swear but in the sense it's like, okay, my heart is broken. I'm pissed off. I don't care if my tweets are pissing you guys off unless you're my tweets anyway. There were so many people when I went through my initial breakup, they kind of expedited this whole career change. There were so many people that were like, here she goes again, we've heard, shut up. I was getting abuse on the regular like on the daily anytime I would tweet abuse. There was even one point where I almost gave up and my mum was like, why do you even care? At the end of the day, you're prospering as a result of sharing your experience. Do your thing. Yeah, it was just a case of like, this is my lived experience. Like all of you guys can fuck off. I don't actually care what you think. I'm pissed off. I'm pissed off at men. I'm pissed off at love. I'm pissed off at this. I'm pissed off of that. This needs to change. That needs to change. This is what I went set before and I'm going to express it because this is how I'm healing and I don't care. So it was like that element of like stripping away the care. And I think that is tied to an understanding that at the end of the day, your life is yours to control. Outside opinions only have so much impact on your outcomes, right? And when I started to see that I was actually helping people, it boosted me even more. This audacity and willingness to share it because I'm like, at the end of the day, if this helps me or changes my life for the better, who cares? Because when I'm on my deathbed, I'm not going to remember you. You're not going to be thinking about me and vice versa. Let me do what works for me. And as far as like relationships in general, I'm a big believer that it is better to loved and lost than to have never loved at all. And it is much better to love freely and wholeheartedly than to hold back out of being scared because the saddest thing is never allowing yourself to feel free, wholehearted and apologetic love. That's sadder than being hurt. Everyone gets hurt at some point. Everyone experiences heartbreak at some point. If you're not heartbroken by a person because they hurt you, you'll eventually be heartbroken when you're no longer together because they passed away or you've passed away, like at some point, your heart is going to break. So you're just not going to experience intense love ever because your life is too short for that. And I guess I just didn't want to live like I really want to live an unforgettable life. And I think part of having that unforgettable life is having unforgettable experiences and unforgettable relationships. And it's not limited to love, it's friendships, it's parental, it's family. And that was just part and parcel of it. Like I'm going to throw myself into it, if it doesn't work out, there are other men several, many men, like it's okay, no one will die, the world will not end. And people are so scared of picking themselves out there or their experiences out there in case of getting embarrassed, even with my fiance in the beginning. Are you scared? What if it's embarrassing you? What if it is? What if you break up? Ah, I could never, I remember doing photo shoots with him, we did a Christmas show. I could never do it for those who were there, man. I saw that. Oh, do those airing on my finger. Okay, now there's a ring on my finger. What if we never did all those things that we've done up to now? Are you telling me I should have held back because I had no ring? Now I've got the ring. And I also have all those memories that you would never have had because you're too scared. Everyone is so scared. And I think they pitch it like it's, oh, you know what, like this self-righteous protect, no, you're just frightened and it's okay, babe, it's okay, but the world will not end if you put yourself out there. So yeah, that was it for me, really. No, I feel like we see, I can say the exact same fucking thing every single time because like when I talk about love and just, I never want to not fall in love, I never want to run away from that, like even as a kid growing up, I welcomed it. So like, I think I have a synopsis of why I think that way. I think it's because my mom, I never saw my mom in love. So I wasn't scared of it. I don't know why I think that, but also that I always like took with me. So my mom was, I was single, like she was a single mom. I can never saw my dad who was never around. So I didn't have a perception or a perspective of what love was supposed to look like. All I knew was she didn't have a partner. And I remember as a kid growing up saying, oh, I want to experiment with this. I want to see what love feels like. So I never run away from it. When I got hurt, I was like, oh, then I'll try again. And I'll try again. And I always had the mentality. And I would have friends tell me, you're not supposed to move like that. Like you're supposed to get this either one really big love or you're not supposed to try it all. Like you can't shoot your shot. You can't ask somebody out. And I was like, why wouldn't I take control of the one thing that's so impactful to a lot of us growing up? That's so fun. Yeah. Like why would I not be the one to choose to be a love to be chosen? It never made sense to me to be the one to wait. Like it always made sense for me to try. Yeah. And what would they say? No. OK. Oh. Again, the world will not end. The world never ends. Like, yeah, you might be embarrassed a bit. Like, OK. You're supposed to be going to fall down in front of millions of people and they go back up. Exactly. And I love that you say that, especially as a woman, because I think that's a big problem that a lot of women face. And this was really hard for me too, like the thought of rejection. And I think with age, you become more confident so the idea is less scary. But a lot of women end up with the man that chooses them and not necessarily the man that they would choose. They choose. Yeah. Because if you had it your way, like in a space full of 30 men, that's not the man you would have gone to. Yeah. But you ended up with the man who came to you. Yeah. And sometimes we can be of the opinion that, oh, if a guy's not interested, you should be interested anyway. But what if he's shy, too? And you're both shy. And because of that, you never ever get together. Yep. Yep. I say this all the time because I'm like, OK, the thing about rejection, when we grow up, a young boy and a young girl be a born, they're playing the playground at home. The boy's hearing, if he says, I have a crush, the boy's hearing, oh, go talk to her by her flowers. Go do this. If she says no, ask her friend or ask her best friend or ask another girl, the girl is hearing, OK, we'll address pretty. Make sure you don't move around too much. And touch him. Don't talk to him. He'll come to you. So we hear that over and over and over again growing up. So by the time you're like 12, 13, you're waiting in line, like, OK, I have to, if I'm prim and proper, he will pick me. Yeah. And you hear that when you're 20. And you're 30 and 40. Yes. And that's when you see all the pick me girls, because that's what is ingrained in our heads. And you wonder why mediocre men are walking around here, thinking like they're the best thing in the world. Yeah. We're bad. We're bad. We're baddies because of this idea of been waiting to be chosen. Yeah. And I don't think it removes your self worth to choose to anything empowers you, because you have a say in the dynamic, in the conversation, it should like partnerships and relationships should never be one person having more power over the other person. I agree. It should always be partnerships. And we see that with our parents, with our friends, with relationships that have worked or haven't worked. At the end of the day, it's a partnership. Anyone who's married or anyone who's in a partnership will tell you that exactly is, it's never 50-50 is who can give now, who can take now, who can give after. Like, that's how it's supposed to be. And I get frustrated when I see young girls coming up. I went to Nigeria. Yeah. It shocked me in 2019. In 2019, I just graduated with my bachelor's, and I was about, I was getting my master's. And I was hanging out with a bunch of girls. And these were like, it was like an apartment we went to, it was five young girls. I'm telling them like, 18, 19, five young girls, and the parents all give us them like, Benin, I can all show them a different place, but they were all squatting on the island. And I was like, oh, so what do you guys do for work? And they told me nothing. I said, what do you mean nothing? They're like, oh, they don't do anything like, you know, this boy does this or this mando's this and this man. I have to look at them like, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? So their whole life is just funded and waiting. And this is a perception that I oftentimes get, no, even in Nigeria alone, but even around the women who I know are business women, right? Because the questions I get a lot is, how am I so independent? How am I so this? How am I so hard work? How am I also this thing? Because the idea of women being empowered means you can't be chosen. And that's something that's always frustrating me. And I remember telling them like, okay, so what about school? Oh, once I marry, I don't need it for what? They said that. Yes. And I never forget like, these are young girls. And this is one of the biggest reasons why like with my platform, it's always never, like my mom was in the podcast as she said, I just, when I saw her lifestyle, I realized it was nobody was funding it. It's just her. It's like, yeah, mommy, like I made sure of it. It's not like, this is me building this thing because I can choose the path for myself. And so many young women within our communities aren't allowed or don't try to choose their paths because of maybe what their families are saying, what people around them are saying. And I ask for the girls, young girls, we're listening. You have every fucking right to choose the destiny that you want for yourself. Amen. And the as a society is pretty trickle, yes, you're going to struggle some more. Yes, you're going to fight men who think you're sexy, so they don't want to give you the position. Yeah. But through that comes a sort of strength that makes you even more unstoppable and makes you even more powerful because the bullshit you have to weigh through to get to the top. Once you're at that fucking top, no one can touch you. That's it. And like, it feels hard to get to, but once you're there, it feels so great. It does. And I think like a beautiful thing about partnership as well is when you're in a partnership with a person who respects your autonomy, and you're understanding that actually, like you might support each other in life, but you have two separate lives and you had two separate lives before you made each other. And you should still respect that individuality. And I think that when you give up your autonomy by saying, oh, this person will lead my life, will set my parameters, will choose my journey, will set out my destiny, like you just give up your autonomy. And I think that's even an insult to your greater. Yeah. It was funny. I was not necessarily funny, but I was, I don't know if you saw the Nara Smith interview with, I think it was Jay Shetty. No. So Nara Smith, you know, Nara Smith, where the cook, okay. So she talked, everyone says she's a tradwife, so I want to get your thoughts on the tradwife situation. But everyone was talking about how she's a tradwife and she said, because you see me cooking and cleaning from my partner, doesn't mean I am some downtrodden woman, I have my businesses when I'm not home working and traveling, my husband cleans up, but we're at your partnership. But she said, because of the aesthetic, people don't recognize me to respect me because of my aesthetic meaning, because I'm in the kitchen cooking, I can't also possibly be chasing my dreams. And so even with the conversation around, like you getting engaged and you getting married, I know there's two, I'm not going to name any names, but other folks, like women, strong women who, the moment they say they're engaged or they're married, now before like, oh, now they finally can listen to them. Now you're worth being spoken to because you've been chosen by a man, so I want to get your thoughts on that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We'll start with the, with the latter first. That first straights you. And it's so funny, because it's straights, I think Tywin. I don't say even more, because I remember one time there was someone who tweeted about like how she was going to buy my book now that I'm getting engaged, because clearly I know what I'm talking about and Ty was so it. And he was like, has the information changed? Everything that's in the book, has been in the book since 2021, nothing has changed. But I think it feeds into that patriarchal system and the patriarchal beliefs that people have, unfortunately, from certain cultures I've brought into in that women is not worthy or women is meaningless or of less value if she isn't attached to a man, if she's not married. And unfortunately, and people saying that, oh, now I'll pay attention to her. I don't think it's a simply down to, oh, we've seen results. She knows what she's talking about. I don't think it's generally that actually. I think it's people believing that, okay, now a man has put that stamp on her. I'm going to respect to her, pay attention to her, which is unfortunate. And I guess some people might say, oh, we've seen the results, but I think that is a weak argument, simply because I'm going to get roasted for this, I don't care. And I've said this before online and people really hated me for saying this, but getting married is not an achievement. It's not an achievement. It's not an achievement. Like if I was a single woman and I wanted to get married tomorrow, I could find a man who was a visa. Yes. I could find a man who needs a roof over his head who wants to get married tomorrow. I could go to Vegas right now and someone will be drunk and say, yo, let's go to the chapel. It is not an achievement, right? There are so many different things we do in life that require skill, that require knowledge, that require an effort. And I think that's not to disregard people applying those things to their marriage, like effort, right? But the actual getting married, the act of getting married, someone placing a ring on your finger and signing a form to say you're married, that in and of itself is not an achievement. So when people have insinuated in the past that, oh, because I'm getting married, now I have knowledge, I'm like, wait, there are so many people that are married, that I cook or not heads. Listen to them then. They say they're advice. And likewise, there are so many people who are unmarried, who are very, very intelligent, who are very emotionally intelligent, who could give you great advice on relationships. And I don't think it's as simple as if someone is married, they give good advice out, they give good relationship advice out, that is not the case. It's there are so many things you have to consider. And then as far as Nara Smith, it's unfortunate one, because I see two sides of the coin. On one hand, yes, I didn't see that interview, but I assume, obviously she said that she has a business that her husband helps around the house. And she does things out of love, but not of due to your expectations essentially. In which case, I wouldn't define someone as a tread wife, if they're still working, they still have autonomy, but they're doing things out of love. But I think, on the flip side of that, the reason why society or the public may assume she is is maybe how she did her content. It wasn't as simple as cooking, because I could do a video now where I'm like, oh, let me make a sandwich for my man, I mean, make some food, some rice for my man, and I don't think people will assume I'm a tread wife. And I could do lots of content like that, and I don't think people would assume I'm a tread wife. But I think it's, there was the visual aesthetic that she, I assume alluded to. But also, and I knew she did this from a branding perspective, because it was good for views. But when you're over complicating processes, it can give people the wrong impression. And I think like something that someone might buy at a store, and she explained why she does that. I think it's to do with a health condition. But when people didn't know that, a jam that you might buy at a store, or something that you might buy with ease, and she's making it scratch, and I think the connotation of that, people are thinking like, ah, mish, hyper-traditional. And the connotations of those things are tread wife under your husband's thumb. And the thing about the internet is that people make many assumptions. They often, they don't read between the lines, they, there's nothing to read, they assume between the lines. So when you're picking out nuggets of information, people will come to their own conclusions, and unfortunately, there's no way to control that, unless you share more information, not everyone wants to share everything, so I think that's why she's found herself in this pickle. But I'm glad that though, she's been able to speak up and say, actually, I think she's on a PR run right now. Oh, is she trying to? Trying to change her. It's a PR run right now, because I think with the, everything, tread wife conversations happen a lot. Especially with like, what people like to coin hyper-independent women, which is ridiculous, because I feel like a hyper-independent woman is just a, a woman who's, I guess, independent for a lot of people. Well, not necessarily. Okay. I think a hyper-independent woman is an, a woman who is independent, but sometimes to her own detriment. Because I would define myself as pre, my relationship now, a hyper-independent woman. Independent women is someone who can take care of herself. Yeah. I think a hyper-independent, as far as my definition anyway, a hyper-independent woman is a woman who takes care of herself, even in circumstances where she doesn't need to, or even in circumstances where support is being offered. Does she still wouldn't be able to do it? Yes, because she, she experiences emotional discomfort when people try and either strip her independence away from her or when try, people try and support her, because she the doubts their intentions or because she is so used to doing things by herself, for herself, that she has become somewhat of a control freak and she has to manage everything. And I think that is when you fall into hyper-independence, when the hyper is the insinuation of it being unhealthy. Someone can help you and someone is capable or someone is willing and you're still pushing them away. That's me. I'm so hungry. I can't. It physically makes my body uncomfortable. I have to fight it. I feel like I struggle to find that safety. I'm working on it and I have really, really good people around me who are helping me get there. But my past has had me wary of men, honestly of people in general, let's say that, and even women to a friendships. I have had to navigate that from being sexually assaulted and having my worth being still connected to that experience and thinking, okay, if I made sure I took care of myself, no one can ever strip me of my dignity in that way ever again. So it's as simple as, I remember I took a friend out to dinner this guy. I was the first time he, like a guy actually cursed me, I was so little, but I never let people pay for me when I'm out. Like I just can't. I can't do it. No matter what it is, no matter how cool we are. I used to be like that in my 20s. I can't. I just can't do it. And I remember I paid for, I went, at this time while I was very, I'm very dramatic. I went, I knew he was going to say he wanted to pay. And I wasn't sure how to define our relationship yet. And for my safety, I went, I snuck out to go try to go to the bathroom, went to the waiter and said, I'm going to sneak you my card. Please cover the meal and come back and give me secretly. Just so in case he pays for it, I don't feel obligated for him to feel like I owe him something. And I remember sitting down and the waiter comes, he sneaks it in, he was about to pay and I was like, oh, I ready to pay it. And he got so visibly upset, but it was, this was an example of someone who held space for me because he went, help me explain to me why you just did that because I invited you out. I respect your craft. I know you can afford it. But I wanted this to be my treat. And I'm not upset at you. I just need to understand. And I was like, no, it's okay. So he said no, no, no, no, no, I'm not letting you leave until you explain this behavior to me. And I did. And he said, I simply only want friendship and respect from you. And this was something that, of course, I wouldn't have minded if you paid for it, but I could physically feel you throughout the conversation, get uncomfortable, I wasn't sure why. And I feel you at peace now because you've paid. And it was a, that thing took me back and I was like, why did I feel the need to do all of that for this? And so that was a really safe conversation for me to have with someone who I'm really close to. And I was like, that's a good, good way to share, but I was able to hash that out. I still struggled with it a little bit, but now I'm understanding that that is a trauma response. It's something that's happened to me in the past. But my hyper-interpanency still definitely shows that in a lot of different ways that I'm working on. But I think it also comes from like finally having space, like a safe space with someone to be able to like feel safe enough to let go and not a lot of people have that. They don't. I think that's definitely what it's rooted in. I remember getting cast out on Twitter because, why are we always getting cast out? I think I better use the app now because I just said you know what there are so many people here that dislike me. I went back and picked off 80% of Nigerian men. Oh, Nigerian men hate me. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, no, yeah, yeah. Oh, awesome. The way I'm like, when I'm in Nigeria, how's the guest security? Snap is ridiculous. Wow. The threats of, oh, it hits my head when they see me though. Like I was one time a stupid idiot man at a restaurant in New York that she grabs my head and shakes it. And he's like, oh, you just girl, you just strong headed girl, I'm telling you like disgusting. But that's how much, even I told young girls, that's how visceral that is for just simply existing because how dare a woman have a mouth to open up my shirt or opinion or disagree with. Oh, my days. We were, if we were men, they were the best of the same level of smile. You see, they want to podcast that. Oh, did I say no? Says. But then they obviously the amount of podcasts of men saying nonsense and they just allow it. Okay. They wouldn't have to talk the same way. Yeah. They wouldn't have to speak for us in the same way. Oh, anyways, guys, so even hearing you talk and what's up in conversation, your voice is so consistent, like your tone of voice, like your brand, like yeah, like, because other craters while I'm nerding out, because I feel like sometimes when I'm talking, I can get really passionate. So, you know, like that Obama angers to translator skate, have you seen it? So, like, Obama is like, standing and he's like, I'm talking to the people and he's very calm, very Obama-esque. Yeah. And there's the guy who is key or peel in the key and he's coming and he's like, you mother fuckers. Fuck you. So I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that. So I feel like in this conversation, I'm the one who's like, fuck, y'all, you stupid hit up and then you're like, you guys need to listen and understand. And you're just like, I feel like I'm getting passionate. Yeah. And you are super. That's what I'm saying. So, like, but you do it with such grace and in a way, I don't know how this would come off, but like, forgive me if it comes off weird. Yeah. And a way that makes it feel like women would respect it more coming from you. Does that make sense? Yeah, I guess so. If a, and I think against this all goes back to the patriarchal society and just like sort of like branding and all that stuff, but you speak so well, like this is again, respect, ability, politics, all that stuff. Well, the eloquence with which we should speak literally the notes were like, you speak with class, my team of roads, aura of high value elegance. High value. Hey. I've known that one. It makes her a realness. And this is my assistant who's like, just turned 21, you said that. And I remember when I saw that, that's a colon, I said, what did you mean? Well, I said, well, we know it's great when that's because because you never told me I have high value elegance with realness, so you know, I just took any of that is too. How do you, what is sort of your advice around maintaining a consistent brand toned you who you think about as a true you being you? Um, well, I think fundamentally is, it is me being me because my, my sister, if you have my sister on my brother talk, yeah, I feel like we all kind of articulate ourselves in a similar way. So I think that, um, it's part and parcel of just how we grew up and where we grew up. So I think that's the underlying thing. And then, um, experiences in life taught me different lessons. And I think one of those lessons was the power of not just what you say, but how you say it. And as much as, um, I went through painful breakups in the past, I'm not going to negate the fact that I learned lessons from ex partners, valuable lessons and lessons I'll always be thankful for. And one lesson I learned from, um, an ex of mine was how important it is to manage my emotions and regulate my emotions. And I think growing up, particularly in my teens and early 20s, I would struggle to regulate my emotions. And so I would feel heated or frustrated or passionate about something. And I would just, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, in a quick spiel. Yes. And I would always face the same issue, feeling as if people aren't listening to me. And I'd be like, why aren't they listening, why aren't they listening? It wasn't until that relationship, I understood that actually, I'm not helping myself because people are likely to zone out when you're aggressive. People are likely to zone out when you're, um, being unnecessarily loud when people are trying to have a calm conversation with you. Yeah. And there's a time and place. I can be wrong. Sometimes I'll cut someone out. But I think, um, what that experience taught me was that how I articulate myself can influence whether or not people listen to me. Okay. Um, in the pace, I speak, because I used to speak very, very fast when I was younger. So the pace, the volume, the tone, everything. And I think I also kind of learned that parent, um, that lesson from my parents, but the flip side. My dad can get very passionate. And one of my gripes with him is that sometimes I feel like he doesn't regulate his emotions well. And just the other day, he was getting really annoyed about something and I said to him, look, I need you to pause. I know he's so sick of my shit with parents now, that's exactly what happens. And it's you to pause, take a breather and consider like the way you said that. Do you think that it was like conducive for a positive conversation? Do you think that this person will end up listening to you? Having said things like that, like do you think that you could said it? You could have said it differently. I need you to consider like, how can you show emotional intelligence when you're having conversations with people? Otherwise, I was like, Daddy, they zone out. I was like, do you know how many times you've spoken to me and I'm so proud of you? I'm like, you can't do that. And I think having parents or, um, also my dad, my mum, but sometimes my mum, she'd be flipping out too. But having a parent, the struggles with that and is open with struggling with that also made me see what I didn't want to do. And I wanted people to listen. I didn't want people to zone out. I didn't want people to get fed up or roll their eyes when I speak. So I'm like, okay, I need to manage the way I speak. So yeah, I think it's just come from experience more than anything because then, okay, you say that. And then I'm in my head thinking, I'm a Eurobar African woman and mostly black women, right? Yeah. And oftentimes that's loud or sort of yelling like we, well, no, I'm not going to speak for everyone, but my household is yelling. You hear the, you have supposed, you only get heard if you're the lot of us in the room. We see that too with like, if we're doing games now, you see Africans arguing, oh, they're shouting on the top of their voices, well, then I know you're right because I also know that the moments where I'm like sitting and pausing to think before speaking, changes the game for me because my, my thoughts are clearer and more intentional, but how do you navigate that in a way like how do you learn the idea that you don't have to shout or yell to get your point across, especially in like a safe relationship? Because like, the amount of women I've heard say, oh, he's the calm one. I'm the crazy one. He's used to it. And then I'm like, that's just a shame. I don't, I mean, you know, I'm like, I don't, that is too funny because there's a lot of especially like, as long as women will tell you like, oh, yeah, my man is so quiet. But like, once I'm yelling on here, he'll be the one I'll be, I'm like, no, we need to, we need to take ownership of the fact that like, you can communicate without yelling. I can take a pause too. I agree. How do we learn that? Now, as far as the relationship thing, I do think a woman should be madder and better than a partner, but she shouldn't be crazy, madder and badder, madder, madder, madder. So I put out a video saying out of the two of you, who is most likely to commit a crime. And I said the answer, if you're in a heterosexual relationship, should always be you and not the man. And I said that is because I feel like a woman can be, let's say a fiery assertive cheeky and still, because of the way women are socialized, still be very regulated, that is true. Now when a man is, is fiery, he's, he's cheeky or he's troublesome, he might not be regulated in the same way. And I think that also the way we navigate relationships is different. Like a man who is troublesome, can bring trouble to their relationship, but a woman who is cheeky and troublesome, might not necessarily be a troublesome woman, as far as like moral behavior, because of the way women are socialized. And I just observed married couples have been together for years, and I would always found that the woman was a little bit more fiery. Now the caveat being, and I love that you mentioned that, is like in being fiery, that doesn't mean you should disrespect your partner, that doesn't mean you should be emotionally mature, that doesn't mean you shouldn't regulate yourself. In a healthy relationship, both parties work to talk to each other in a respectful way, to have a respectful dialogue. That's important. Like you could be fiery in the sense that, like I say this, this is my example, if I'm in a restaurant with Tywin and they bring out our food and they got his order wrong, he will just eat it. Yes. Me, I'll say, oh yeah, I'll probably, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, or like say if something happened where someone's pissed him off and he just doesn't, I'll be like, no, no, no, no, excuse me. That's what I mean. Like that energy where you don't mind being a little bit more direct in the relationship, but you should always respect your person, because respect should be a mutual thing in a relationship. So as far as like unlearning, and that family example I think was a powerful one, because in a room full of shouting people, I think the most heard voice sometimes can be the most controlled one, yes, that is true, because if everyone shouting, like say you're playing monopoly or you're doing a quiz game, everyone screaming, no, no, no, no, the one person's like, excuse me, okay, guys, and they're just in a calm tone, everyone kind of looks at them because it's like, right, you're not in the craziest, craziness, you're not in the mix with us. So I think seeing that first hand and other people made me realize that, also just seeing how people would react, oh yeah, do you think? Also how people would react to, just me when I decided to switch it up, and also how I want to see you switch it up, you want to see the rest, and also people, how I would react to people when they would be like shouting and going crazy at me, like I would zone out. So in my head, I was just like, look, if I'm doing it, other people would do it. And I guess that relationship that I was in really locked in that message for me, because my partner, although it didn't work out, my partner at the time was very communicative. And so when I wasn't listening, or I was buttoning in, or I was shouting, he would make it clear that like, look, let's listen, let's pause, and one thing he was very good at, and I'm sure he still is, I don't know, but I'm sure he still is, is emotional regulation. And he was slightly older than me, so maybe it was an experienced thing, but I actually know, I think it's also just the environment that he potentially grew up in, but he taught me the value of that and the power of that. So when I was able to implement that in interactions with other people, I saw how that would benefit me and benefit the conversation. So yeah, shout out to that ex for that lesson to be fair. So like when you were talking, did you watch Love Island season? So the American one, or the English one? Okay, so I'm behind, I'm at the part where Huda was had a challenge with Ace, heart rate challenge. And they generally show us what happened. I guess like she was doing the most. Okay, that's the episode I'm on. Okay, I don't know what happened. But at least you know like the beginning, you know the spoilers of who won and all that stuff. Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Because I think when you're speaking, Huda is an example of someone who is loud and are sort of in their response, with a lot of conversations. And what has been so mind-blowing to me with the response online is the amount of supporters and women who say, she's just like me. And not in a, I need to work on myself, but in a, I have found someone who is reflective of my behavior. Yeah. So that means it's not a bad behavior, I need to continue on with what I'm doing. And I see that a lot online where we see something reflected with us was, that's not necessarily good. Well, we go, because they're doing it and they're on TV or they're online, okay, that means I'm okay. They coastline it, yeah. Yeah. And it was very weird. So like, let's talk a little bit about like love Island in that sense, because I see Huda, I'm going to bring those girls out like for like attachment styles, for example, right? And how they handle things. Huda, Alandria, let's say Shelley, because I like to give them like stories in my head. These are not how they, the people are, but I look at Shelley as the black girl who didn't chase. Yeah. She attracted, right? Like, she stood her ground. She didn't like you. She didn't like you. She liked you. She spoke to you. She shot her shot if she wanted to. She had her options. She let the guy who she wanted to speak to her when she got upset, she got upset, she vocalized it. A very, and essentially, she regulated her emotions and regulated herself. That is what I think Shelley represents it for me. Alandria is a black woman who has been told time and time and time again. Like, you're not pretty enough. You need to wait. Your man is going to come to you. You need to just, if you're a patient, his slow burn would mean something. You need to be a, uh, a, uh, what's a caretaker? You need to make sure like, he's fed and he's taken care of because you deserve love by will only come if you work hard enough for it. And then you have Huda who is essentially like, I know I'm the sexiest person alive. I know I'm great. I know someone who's going to get chosen. How dare you not choose me? F-U-C-K. I'm going to try to get what I want if I want to. But with a lot of emotional craziness mixed in. So in those, in what you've seen so far, how do you see that representative of like the current dating style? Because those women represent a lot of young women right now and how they see love and relationships. And they've been talking about assertiveness and relationships. There are so many times why I wanted Alandria to say, F, everything else that's going on around you, pick yourself. What do you want? Ask the right questions. Don't wait. Don't let him choose you. Well, she didn't do that. Or I wanted Shelley to, oh, well, Shelley, I feel like this digress. She just existed and revived it. Or even with Huda going, maybe take a step back, maybe go journal, maybe go relax of it. So how do you sort of like, what are your thoughts on a few of those things? It's so funny that you mentioned Huda and young women seeing themselves in her because I remember my sister watching episodes with me when I was in Texas and she was like, she was like, how is Huda still here? And she was like, oh, I bet you, little girls are voting for her, little girls are voting for her. And by little girls, she was like young teenagers and young, young women. At least 25 and below, yeah, I would say. And she was like, oh, there's helicopters like this Tony, I know they just see themselves in her. So it's funny, you should say that because I think Huda for me, based on the episodes, but in so far, represented the woman who is angry and annoyed and frustrated, but is always blaming the guy or external factors as opposed to reflecting and considering what she did to contribute to the outcome. Right. And she also strikes me as a common type of person in dating whom thinks they are mature, but they are actually very emotionally immature. And the way they navigate conflicts reflects that. The way they deal with rejection reflects that. And yeah, so Huda represented that for me. Someone who thinks they're grown, but they're not quite grown up. Yeah. And I think the contributing factor for her was obviously having a mother and being a mother, you assume that, oh, you have to be mature, but you're a mother. No, actually, no, you can, because we're moms are 14. Yeah, a mature parent. Yes, they do. So yeah, she struck me as someone who doesn't consider her role in how things play out the way they played out. And then with the laundry, I think that she strikes me as someone who gives more than they get. Yeah. And I think that's also very common to see in dating women who pour into people that aren't necessarily pouring back. And I hope that they feel like they can love someone into loving their Mac, but you can't love someone into loving you. They choose to or they don't. And then with Shelley, I mean, where are I met now? Shelley is just vibing. She's just vibing. She's just vibing. And I'm at a point now where I'm like kind of hoping, well, obviously, you know what happens, I'm not quite there yet, but I'm hoping like she gives this Chris guy a chance, but I know she doesn't, because I've seen everything on Twitter. Also, I see, I'm going to tell me what I see. I now see Chris and his response to her and you get to that. Yeah. I see how she and he and Shelley would have never worked. Really? Yeah. So I want you to get that. I need to be too much. I'm excited. No, it's so interesting. Like watching, because dating shows are a mind fuck in a lot of ways, right? Because you're in spaces that aren't the real world. They're reflective of the real world, but very reflected like you're putting a magnifying glass to a lot of issues. And you're expediting these things like for a lot of people, young people, especially with dating, no one wants to take it slow. Yeah. Right. No one wants to take a pause. And especially I'm calling the girlies out, no one wants to reflect because ideally we're perfect. Like, I'm a baddie. I'm a bad bitch. Like, why would a man come to me and tell me I need to work on myself? Who the fuck is he? Like, you need to come to me, correct? Yeah. But I think there's a beauty and in looking internally and working for. Or yourself and working inwardly to see how you can be better, not for any manner for anyone before yourself, right? And how people's responses to things like, I think I was saying with ever relationship that was in and this person is so emotionally mature and they're navigating, they just didn't know what they were doing. And I felt like the crazy person was like, I know I'm no crazy now. And it took a lot of internal questioning for me to realize, oh, I do have a lot to work on. But they also times when that happens where I start saying, is it the person bringing out the wrong things in me? Is it me? So with hood up, for example, some people argue and say, oh, well, maybe it's just a man who's not right for her. But if she finds the right person, she'll be fine, rather than saying, no, she should work on herself. No one needs to be the person that would help you be the better person. Because I don't think the relationships need to be, I don't say it's hard, but they don't need to be like school projects. Oh, yeah. I mean, like people, like, why don't you wait? Why don't you just say easy? Yeah. Like if you're choosing to be with someone, you're choosing to be whole within yourself, another person being whole, and then coming together to create another entity to then build a life with. And with someone I could, when I see what I'm like, oh, she's not whole yet. She's not. No, she's not. There's so much more in store for her to like grow and learn, but there's no accountability there than there's nothing she can do about it. Exactly. So as we're talking about her stuff, a lot of things that came up for me was her attachment style. And I wanted to know what your attachment style is if you know, are you familiar with all of that? Yeah, yeah. Mine is secure. Yeah. Of course you were fucking secure. I know. No, I am. I wasn't. I was looking. So you can change. Oh, you can change. Oh, yeah. See, me and Tony were like, I'm telling you, kindred souls. I'm an anxious. What is it? Anxious dismissive avoidant. Well, fair full of waiting. A bit of anxious. Fair full of waiting. Okay. But I don't know where that came from because I had always said I was secure in my relationships until I fell in love. Really? What? That's when you fell in love. I became anxious, so I'm fearful of avoiding. So I had always been secure by realizing my security was in the fact that I wasn't tested. It wasn't tested. It wasn't tested. I had never given a fuck enough for me to feel like I should be insecure by anything or anxious about anything. I see. You see what I mean? Until I realized, holy shit, I'm in love with someone. Now all this anxiety is coming in, and I'm having to learn a lot about regulating. So what are some tips for someone who was ex, like I knew you had been anxious with the stories you were telling, and how are you able to like work in between, for example, if my partner doesn't call me or text me immediately is they want to leave. Because when you talked about like you and Taiwan, and you saying like the first incident if you have an issue was, oh, we're done. Like I remember, it was one time we're having an argument, and this was little. This is nothing you should be breaking up, we're like doing what we're talking about. And I go, they call me back and they're talking to me, and I'm just looking like, oh, we're sorting this out. You're not leaving? And they're like, why would I leave? I'm like, oh. I was like, oh, this was, I thought we were, like, done. And they're like, what do you think every conversation means that we're breaking up or we're not? That is too. That is too. I don't know. I guess I'm just, I just assume this is you telling me we're over. So how do you navigate that? Because I can also see hood up being pretty anxious and a lot of avoidant to see, most of them did not have secure access to something, except for Shelley. In a way, the show would be boring if they were all secure. And they were all like secure. I would just get a bunch of people having deep conversation, running off of their sunset. Pretty much. How did you like navigate that? I think I keep part of becoming more secure for me was learning to have a life outside of my relationship. Yeah. So, I remember being in one relationship and I made my life very much about them. I was very much focused on them, focused on their career, their future. And I was happy to just play a part in their story without writing my own story. When I started going through, when I started writing my own story, I became more secure. And I think you're anxious when you, I don't want to say put all your eggs in one basket because my eggs are all in one basket. They're all in tires basket as far as like my person, but you're eggs in one basket in the sense that as a woman, you shouldn't view a relationship as if it's something that will save you or define you, right? Yeah. But I think in my 20s, when I saw relationships like that, it was very easy to be anxious because it's like, it was not working out, you're stripping away my future. You're stripping away my future. Because all these things will happen next year. Oh my God, my life is not going to look how it's supposed to look because I kind of planned it around you, right? When I had my own life and I was like, working on my career, I was writing my books, I was creating like a name for myself. I was like, this is lit, like, my life is lit with or without someone. So now when I met someone that I am spending the rest of my life with, it was easier to be secure because it's like, you know what, I'm going to give my all, you're going to give your all, but if this doesn't work out, life is still a fun to be lit. Like, I still have my life. Yeah. Like, my life is not defined by you. And even with me getting married soon, my partner's love of my life. Like, he's absolutely amazing. God forbid anything happened to him. I would be distraught. Like, you probably would not see me again, right? I would absolutely be distraught. But with that said, what I love about this relationship is that my life is not defined by his presence in it. His presence contributes to added joy, added warmth, added laughter, added happiness. My life is so much more beautiful with him in it, but before him, it was still beautiful. And I think that's what drew him to me anyway. And that's what draws me to him. Like, he's happy with or without me. He's happier with me, but happy with or without me. And I think when you get to that place, it's much easier to be secure. But when you're not in that place and you're unhappy with your existence, oh, it's very easy to be anxious. And also when you tie your value to a relationship, when in being a relationship, I'm more valuable. When someone wants to leave you, it's like, don't abandon me. My sense of value is tight here. But if your value rests in you, it's like, okay, you're lost. But then you need to be careful because when you go too far in that direction, you become an avoidant. I was just about to say, you sound like that person because what that person taught me was exactly that. Like, I want you to stand on your own to fee. I want you to have a life. I want you to do it. I want you to be busy. Yes. But then on the far side of that is they are now an avoidant because they are also like too busy. I can't possibly allow myself to get hurt. So I'm going to just stay far away from that for me not to get hurt. So it's like a delicate balance of trust. And I hear the trust you have in Taiwan so well. And I hear the trust he has in you, even like him not being here. You can always see partnerships as that, simply just trusting each other to survive without each other while also understanding that when you are together, you trust to balance each other out and be good for each other. Not a lot of people take the time to do that. And other people can trust someone else to do that. She would like past trauma before being hurt in the past. Like, I can't imagine myself not telling someone, I'm going to fully trust you to take care of me. But I know if I'm going to want to partner her to spend the rest of my life with, I would want to. And there are so many young girls out there who don't even know what it means to depend on their self to survive. Like those girls you just left in Nigeria. This is a fear in that. What we do is not normal. Yeah. I mean, just understand that. I know you know that. And I feel like there's a luxury that we get to have because we're in the diaspora. Yeah. But you're in the U.K. I'm in the U.S. I'd like to say, like, I've been very much like this since I was raised for sure. Like, when I was in a Lauren getting my law degree before I had to leave, I was very much vocal and stubborn about it. But I also can remember that every time I was trying to be vocal, I was pushed, I got always pushed back. And I feel like at some point, I probably would have morphed into a woman that I probably wouldn't recognize today because of all those little nicks and push and taunts and comments from aunties and women and uncles and all that's why I'm meeting people and all these things. So there's a certain level of removal, I guess, from the situation that we have that we're able to speak so clearly about our independence and our intention that, because I hear African men in like U.S., for example, say, oh, I'll marry a woman from Nigeria. I'll bring a woman here because she's easy to, she's easy to be malleable. We've heard that a lot. Yeah. For people who say, like, oh, you want a woman who wouldn't have a mind of a woman who's young. A woman who's young. Because you can melt her. Yeah. The amount of men who are dating at 35-year-old is dating at 21-year-old. Are you not stupid? Like, don't just be off, but these are things that we share because they're young girls who don't understand what it means to be independent. So what is your advice to like younger us in that sense, right? Because especially with the age of social media, there's so many opportunities now for young women to either be led the right way, essentially, or not, right? And I think I get so worried sometimes when I think about young girls and where they're headed because of this idea of, you know, being independent, seen as a bad thing or a good thing you never know. I think, like, the key bit of advice would be like, do you want to live the life that someone else chose for you or the life you chose for yourself? I think that's the crux of it when it comes to independence. You can choose your life. You can choose how your life looks. You can choose the career you have. You can choose the life you have. You can, do you want full autonomy over your life, right? And I think that is the key question a lot of women need to ask themselves. And I think sometimes they can view independence as hardship. Yeah. Oh, I have to work for myself. I have to make my own money, I have to pay my own bills, I have to pay my own. But there's so much beauty that comes with that, so much freedom that comes with that, so much control that comes with that, being able to control your life, being able to control your choices and not have to depend on other people. And that's not to say that you shouldn't depend on other people, because that's when you cross into like high-prone dependence and it becomes unhealthy, but you can do both. You can have people that support you, you can have people that are there for you, people that take care of you, while you also take care of yourself. And I think like the biggest message to girls that I want to share is that people often show up for you at the level you show up for yourself. So when someone sees that you respect yourself, that you value yourself, that you take care of yourself, that you prioritize your needs, you prioritize your desires, that you have control over your outcomes, they are so much more willing to give you space. They are so much more willing to show up for you, to respect you, to do all those things for you, because they can see that you hold yourself to a high standard. And if you hold yourself to a high standard, they're more inclined to hold you to a high standard, because you've kind of like set the tone. And I think that that's the key thing. A lot of people are going to suggest that and imply that being independent as a woman isn't a good thing. But I think a lot of that is rooted in people wanting women to be controlled. Exactly. And when you understand like a lack of independence means a lack of control, you will very much want to be independent. Exactly. I love that. I feel like most of the strongest women I know are independent women, because of that need to push past everything you're probably going to be dealing with, to get to that point too. And it's so special, there's so many more, I think, if I admire. Okay. We're going to do rapid-fire scenarios advice. Okay. Okay. First rapid-fire question, we're going to be asking. Okay. You're the friend who is always taking up space. And one day your partner tells you to be quiet and stop embarrassing yourself. How do you handle that? Do they say it in that way? In that way? In that way. Be quiet and stop embarrassing yourself. So my partner says this? Yes. Well, I'm with my friends. Yes. Hey, that's even like rolling me up. I think I'll have an instinctual response, which will be, excuse me, because I can't even fathom my partner saying something like that. I'll be like, excuse me. My excuse me is I'm going to give you a second opportunity to re-articulate what you're trying to say right now, right? Yeah. I think my initial response would be, excuse me. And I like to answer, like, idiocy or insults with questions, because it's going to give you an opportunity to reflect. Do you want to repeat what you just said? Is it an appropriate thing to say? I'm going to say, excuse me. And then I'm going to wait to see what else you have to say. And then? They double down. And they say it again. Yeah. In front of my friends, because if you're willing to embarrass me in front of my friends, and that's one thing I'm big on in relationships, like, you don't embarrass your partner in front of other people. You can call them out at home, right? But in front of other people, there's a way to speak to the person you're supposed to love. So if they double down, they say, oh, you're embarrassing yourself. I think I will turn to them and I'll say, never in your life speak to me like that. In front of my friends. And if we can embarrass you in front of your friends, I can do it. I'm going to do the exact thing. Never in your life speak to me like that, especially in front of my friends. What do you think you're doing? And then I'll give them the opportunity to, again, think about what they just did. Because if me, I'll find it embarrassing myself. I'll embarrass you too. Yeah, that's how I can do it. I love it. I think a lot of women, I asked that because you see a lot of folks say, like, oh, we'll talk about it when we get home. And I never want people to feel like if someone had the, well, I would say audacity, but if someone who is in my life felt the need to speak to me in that way in front of people publicly, you've invited my response to be public too. That's it. Because we can talk about it at home. If you kept it for home, exactly. For the minute we unleash outside. Oh, we're discussing that together. Yeah. Okay. So someone next rapid-fire, someone you're into takes a long time to respond to texts. But when you guys talk, they communicate so well, they watch all your stories. They're very active clearly. So basically you're texting, texting all day, but they never respond. Once they call you, they can talk to you for three, four hours. What do I do? Am I being ghosted? Is this a slow burn? Should I communicate? How does that work? Now, I, someone who, I'm such a slow text, like everyone in my family, cusses me from my partner to my mom's, my auntie, everybody, my sister, everybody. She isn't so texar. I can, I can curse her out doing that. When she responses, responding would just call to you. I'm a slow, yeah, yeah, that's it. Just cool. If you want to answer, just call me. I'm such a slow textor. So I understand why people can be slow textors. However, if this is a romantic situation, and it's the early days of a romantic situation, I'm inclined to say that that person is not sure about the individual. The reason why I say that is because when it's the early stages of romance, people are very giddy, very excited. And when they really, really are interested in someone, there's a willingness to want to speak some all the time. Now, when that fades in relationship, so you're in friendship, so you get comfortable, you're not necessarily responding to someone in that same way. But when you're responding to a crush, it's quite, it's quite regular because of that butterfly feeling, that level of excitement. So if someone isn't replied, how long for the whole day? Like they never text back like once in a while, like, hi, hi, hi, well, they're on Instagram stories, watching your stories, but they didn't text you back. But they will call you later that night, but they might call you randomly for like, my day, to me, a day's not a lot. But then, no, but do you know why? Do you know why a day's not a lot to me? Because if, oh, but they're watching your stories, I was going to say like, is there on the phone? Oh, okay, no. If they're on the phone, they're not that interested. Right? Yeah. Okay. Because if you, if they went on the phone, I was going to say, because my friend was dating a doctor, and that's different. Yeah, he wouldn't be, she'll be frustrated because he wasn't messaging her, but his phone was literally in his locker. Like a day's not a lot of someone's working in that. Yeah. But if they're on the phone and they're on your stories, then clearly it's not that interested. Cause yeah, when it's early days of romance, it's someone's interested. They will get one. They're excited. They're excited. Yeah. Okay. We just listed the second question. I have two people interested in me. One is taking their time. The other is not first person stable and building trust. They've made it clear. They're a slow burner. But there's no commitment yet, but they're slow burner. And they want to get to know man, they want a future with me. But they're taking it very slow. I mean, we're speaking here and there, but there is no passion or love or anything, but we definitely know there's an attraction there. How long has it been? Sorry, I love contact. No, no, but let's give it a month. Okay. Let's do a month. That's a solid day. The other is sending me flowers blowing up my phone once to wife me today. How do I know the same thing we made at the same time? How do I know what the healthy slow burn is versus love bombing? I think when it comes to love bombing, the timing typically doesn't make sense. After a month, someone can send you flowers. Someone can be blown up your phone after a month updating that. I think that's actually fine. But if they're doing it after 24 hours, they're blowing up your phone or a couple days, that's indicative of like something that maybe you could side-eye. And also, it's a question of how you feel like do you feel uncomfortable? Do you feel like it's going too quickly? Or is it going at a pace that you are also comfortable with? And the thing with love bombing is I think a lot of it rests on how you feel as a person and what makes logical sense as far as timing. Because some people are passionate people. Because the way my partner and I met, to someone else that can look like love bombing on paper, but now we get married. He's still here. A love bomber, love bombs, you disappear. They're in it for the chase, right? If someone is a passionate person, they might just feel like they met their person and they want to wipe you ASAP because they just know when they got, right? But then on the flip side, someone could be doing it and giving you like lavish gifts as a means of like manipulating you. If it hypothetically was a month, I would say go with the person who's showing you intentionality because I think a month is showing you intentionality. Yeah, a month is it's perfectly normal. Yeah, ample time to get to know someone in my opinion. If it's if it's been three days and they're hounding you down, sending you all sorts of hours, then the slow burn. But I think a month is more than enough time. Yeah. Okay. Last one around friends. My friend is passive aggressive and low key shady, no support and just pretty mean. Only shows up when it benefits them. I still want them to be my friends because I think they're a good person. How do I communicate with this friend? So sorry, can you repeat that please? So my friend is pretty passive aggressive. Yeah. Low key shady does not support me and just mean and only shows up when it benefits them. But I still want to be friends with them because I know they're a good person. I think I delete this person grew up with the person. So maybe that's what they think they're good. How do I communicate with this friend that drains me? Oh, do you want to be friends with that person? Yeah. Yeah, this does not sound good friend. Like a good friend who likes you. Yeah. And it's like, I know they're a good friend, but how if they if they're being shady passive aggressive and they don't shop for you. Yeah, those are like key requirements for friends. Yeah, like that. That's just a red flag friend. Yeah. If it was me, I wouldn't even try and salvage to the relationship to be honest. I feel like there are too many things. I'll give you like the opportunity to like mess up once as a like behavioural in a behavioural way, right? Yeah. But like fool me twice. Shame on you. If we try shame on me, like, I thought if there's repeated behaviour that like indicates bad character, then I don't have the time for that. I'm a friend who's pissed me the fuck off recently. And I just I think we're done. Yeah. I think it's all about like reciprocal energy. And I think too many women don't have the same smoke they have for their relationships with their friendships. Yeah. And we need to start doing most. Or maybe even vice versa too, honestly. Yeah. That way everybody was in a relationship with me needs to act up. That is true. And I like that you said vice versa because that's so true. Sometimes people will hold their friends to a high standard, not the men in their life. Well, sometimes people will hold the men in their life to a high standard. And not their friends. Like they weren't set to in love, but they have really shitty friends. Or sometimes people have really amazing friends, but they set to in love. So it's about finding that like balance. Yes, exactly. I love that. Okay. This is one I just started doing on the podcast. You're my third guest. I'm going to say. And my two loud is all about being bold and opinionated and being unfiltered. And I don't know if you've seen Aisha raised speech at this women's award where she talks about hyping herself up. I think what she's like, I'm the baddest bitch in the scene that all I did was did it. So essentially what I want you to do is you're going to start with am I too loud? If I say and then you're going to do it can be one minute, it can be 20 minutes, where you just talk your shit, hype yourself up. You can say you're the best selling author who knew that your book was going to sell out because you put in the work for it. You can say, of course you're married to the best man because you know your worth and I want you to hype yourself up. Like you would speak to yourself in the mirror on a good day. Okay, this is going to be a talk your shit. Am I too loud if I say and then go ahead. Okay. I'm trying to just think. I might too loud if I say that everything good that happens to me isn't by accident, but it's due to me. Am I too loud if I say that everything good that happens to me isn't my accident, but it happens because I'm intentional. Don't get me wrong. I acknowledge God's role. God gives it to me, but I know how to handle it. And I think that is the difference between me and so many other people. My willingness to take the time out to reflect and to consider why things happening not to me, but for me. Am I too loud if I say that I was able to create a career out of my lived experience because I actually take the time out to reflect. Am I too loud to say that I articulate myself well, not because I'm trying to prove a point, not because I'm trying to. Oh, let me start that one again. Thank you for that. Hmm. Am I too loud? No, this is it. This is it. Sorry. Am I too loud if I say when I started this, there were so many people who did not want to listen to me. They wanted to disregard my opinion. They wanted to disregard my experience. They wanted to disregard my age, but the proof is in the motherfuckin put in, right? Stay winning, never losing. Am I too loud if I say I've been trying to help you? I know that you all wanted to listen, but maybe y'all will listen now. There we go. I love people's takes on this. I was thinking about what will I say. I love it because when everyone starts, they start so soft at first. They start so fast. They're like, I'm like, it's loud and they're like, I know that I want to tell y'all that you need to. And I love that because we don't tend to celebrate our achievements enough. We talk our shit and I'm glad you did because you are the big sister I never had and you continue to inspire a lot of women to just keep doing what they're doing and just you speak so eloquently and you speak so intentionally. And I see that even with this conversation we had, you speak with care. And I think no love will do that on the internet. You just blah, blah, blah. But you do it so well and you do it with such grace and I'm such a huge fan of you and your work and I can't wait for you to be at Madison Square Garden. Oh, hey, hey, man. I can't even be on a podcast TV with your own show and just I can't wait to see how many things you're doing. You guys should go listen to your podcasts by the books coming out soon. Yeah, it's no fun to give in. You can pre-order it now, guys. Pre-order it now. All of it. I'm so proud. Thanks for having me here. And my wife, we're doing amazing. I've seen you grow so much over the years and I remember meeting you on Twitter and then how much you just exploded. But I think that is a testament to like just you as you are. Like you're so warm. Like people are drawn to you because you just have such a wonderful presence. And I think you add so much value in a space that can come across like just very fake and very fickle. Like crazy. Yeah, and that lacks, yeah, that lacks depth. Like you add the depth, but you also add the vibes. You add the fun. You add a sprinkle of everything. But I think fundamentally that people can see that you're just a good person, right? And so I'm proud of you. You're doing well. You're killing it, man. You're smashing it. You're smashing it. All right, guys. Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe, and YouTube if you're watching or on Spotify. Give us a five-star rating or Apple Podcast and all of the above. And I'll see you all in my next episode. Bye, guys. Thanks, Tony. That was good.