Mummy... LET’S TALK DATING AS BLACK MUSLIM WOMEN | Crossover Episode: AITL X OOT | Part 2

Joint collaboration, like a Disney channel, oh my god. I do like do like a joint like thing Wait, that's so gay. It's so sorry. No, like no mommy. Don't do this like please. I'm sorry. I didn't even know I didn't even know he gave it to me. I didn't even open it. What's that boy now? Like being the worst man I'd be like when I was six years old It broke my heart all in a podcast session But so many girls have that experience where they're like I was 17. Why was this 23 year old checking for me? Choose what you want to choose. Don't let anyone dictate how you're supposed to Choose you and choose you always pick you pick you Hey guys welcome back to honor terms hosted by muah is martuba as you know this is not a safe space It's a brave space We're gonna be brave Hey guys welcome back to the mind's a lot of the podcast with selfie aka the mother freaking audity We're ready for some juicy conversations last week. We were both first of all. I am here. You probably already seen the cut I'm here with us mom too. We're doing our joint collaboration like a Disney channel. Oh my god I do like do like a joint like thing Wait, that's so gay. It's so sorry Wait, but I kind of like this But we're doing a joint episode on sex so if you missed last episode we're still in the same outfit legit like we're doing the same But last week we had a lengthy conversation with you guys which was technically a few minutes ago About sex about FGM about just choice as a young woman And we just thought like we're yapping for so long that it will be beautiful to have this via two part series Yeah, because in this episode, what are we gonna be talking about? We're gonna be talking about dating We're gonna talk about the queerness of it all Crazy We're gonna like it's more sex It's more sex more fun. Let's talk about sex baby. Let's talk about you and me when I was but you get the point All right guys, so who I feel like those are such a heavy episode to end it last week We hope you guys saw the resources in description, but I feel like we We can talk about sex all we want, but I think like I think a huge factor around sex is dating And I want to know what your introduction to dating was, but for me That was no days since you involved you are supposed to find a man and no I mean see mother will find you a man or your aunties will find you a man in the mosque And then though their parents and their moms will talk and then you and the male will meet each other Sometimes and you guys will say oh we like each other. Yeah, if you like him maybe if you don't like him You're going to like him and y'all end up getting married and then It's great start popping out babies. Yeah, that was kind of my Understanding because everybody before me went through that same process and I knew that was that's That was my introduction to dating. That was what I knew apparently that's what dating was supposed to be But then obviously you grew up in America. Yeah, I'm watching Disney Channel like I see everybody has boyfriends and girlfriends The media and you want to partake in whatever that is that they're doing and so Yes, obviously like I knew what dating was defined by my parents, but I also knew what my little secret definition of dating was that was going to be my little thing that I do on the side It was just I'm gonna have a boyfriend when I want to have a boyfriend Like it was just like I always knew at a very young age. I'm gonna date. I remember My parents used to always say No dating in my house. No boyfriend in my house. I actually have a story to share with you guys So when I was in first grade, there was this boy who liked me first grade first grade is six seven okay And this boy liked me and he wrote me a note He wrote me like a really cute note and I remember he gave it to me and I put it in my book bag and I just never looked at it because I was like I just remember my little brain. I was like boy and Me and my mom used to do this thing where she would clean we would clean out my book bag at the end of every weekend every week before school started and Because I was a baby. I had no idea What this little note meant. I didn't even open it, but I knew it was bad automatically because a boy gave it to me And I remember we were cleaning on my book bag and the card was still there and I remember I Stupid as I grabbed the card and I go And I put it behind me and my mom's like what is that? What is that give it to me and I was like you're a good kid. Yeah, and I was just like no no no no no like I don't know. I don't know what it is. I was like trying to hide. I was trying to hide and go put it in the garbage And my mom goes bring it bring it to me Me and her are reading this card for the first time It's like something like you're such a funny bunny something something something. It was really cute It was actually very very cute. I don't know where that boy is now. I can't even remember his name But that was such a cute card and he was just like you're so cute Um, like let's do like a play date or something or like I think his I remember his mom was standing next to him when he gave me the card So it must have been like he went and told his mom. Oh, I like this girl. She's really cute And the mom was like well, you should write her a card He was an african. He was definitely like african-american or something and so He gave me the card and like I just also remember how my little ass grabbed that card and I was like And I just like ran away because I was just like I could because I think it was around like school pickup time So I think I saw my mom and I was like I don't know why you're talking to me and I just like so at that young age I was conditioned to understand that this boy girl thing I shouldn't be a part of it and then I remember my mom goes She starts laughing at first, but then she like gets herself together I think and she goes when your father comes home, you're gonna have to talk to him about this and I remember I started crying. I was crying so hard. I was like oh my god I was just like I was just like mommy. No, like no mommy. Don't do this like please. I'm sorry. I didn't even know I didn't even know he gave it to me. I didn't even open it. I didn't even know. I didn't even know that's what he wrote to me my dad comes home and my mom gives him the note And I see him start to chuckle too And but I didn't register it. I thought they were just like oh, I'm really gonna beat this girl's up And so I just remember We sit down and my family used to do this thing at the end of every day We would we ate together in like one bowl and so we were eating and my dad was like You don't talk to boys. You don't have to talk to boys like he was actually really it was actually really He was actually really good about it and he was just like not healthy, but like it was like Boys shouldn't be writing stuff like this to you like don't talk to boys boys like boys are stupid And I remember being like I will never talk to them ever again Like I will never accept the note bro that boy never got a smile out of me ever again Like I remember being like No literally I like never cracked a smile with him ever again like I was just like don't talk to me Like don't look at me like No literally. I was just like don't talk to me I would like we would be sitting at the same table I would like take all the crayons and stuff like that to really show him like I don't really want to talk to you No literally. What do you see? I like always are I don't know go ahead I love that you're saying that because I always preach on my podcast how Men are taught rejection really early on and women are taught not like we're not taught about rejection Because that boy is learned now and that he can constantly try again Because he probably went back home to his mom and said oh she didn't like me. They're like okay Well, do you have another girl blue legs who you like in that class? Let's try to sure a shot there Yeah, but you were conditioned. No, you're not supposed to do that So now your entire life is no one was talked to me. No man was see me I just can't remember when it shifted for me, but for the longest it was like don't even look at me Don't even look at me. I feel like mine My mom was a single mom And I had my brother and like cousins around me and they were sloths like Sloths so like I never fully was into guys except for when I went to high school I think like I have to tell remember ADHD But I feel like what I can remember right now is I'm sitting on this green couch chair Is that but I do remember my first crush was this boy Well, I had a girl was my crush about this is important to the story because then when I even had the girl crush I didn't know anyone Who because it was a girl's boarding school. I didn't know anyone who had girl crushes So I just felt like I just really liked her as my best friend like I just wanted a Hannah Montana best friend Lily situation Like that was how I thought about it. So in my mind it never occurred to me that like I might like like girls and guys It was just Okay, this boy though. I have to like because I've been told that like I'm gonna marry a boy So I remember his name was took away. Should I just open love that boy down? Oh my god nine year old me Oh, I could eat that boy's ass if I could like I was down bad for that boy He didn't not give me time of day. I wear best friends, too Was that hard? My entire high school experience was me chasing after him like every guy who likes me after him knew that he was my first love And honestly a part of me wondered if he was my first love because I rejected you. Yeah, because it was unrequited Wow, maybe that's why I stuck up on him so much because I'm one again as a single mom So I never really care to date. I just was I'm also a very picky person if I'm not connected to you So I spent my entire high school career in love with his boy like and he would date other girls But I was his best friend like I will wait for him after prep after reading to see if he would say hi to me But he would but he wouldn't like say anything. I was crazy. Yeah, but he also like keep me there like he might say stuff Like I really like he knew you liked him. Oh, yeah, everybody knew I liked him every single person my high school knew I liked him Like even the boys that liked me they knew that like I liked him first. I had to convince them that no No, no, no, no, I've moved on. I had not moved on. I had no When did you stop liking him? Honestly I think you still like him to know Maybe like two three years after I graduated high school. Oh honestly, I like four or five years Wow, what was it about him nothing like I'm telling you it might really just be because he was unrequited Which you should talk about That's all because my mom and my brother had a close relationship And so I was always trying to beg for their attention So when I find a guy who I like that was begging for his attention the entire time therapy I wish I could answer that for you. I wish I could answer that for you But we're probably gonna need a professional what's that might have been the thing Because I have a thing for people who don't like me. I love the chase. You're making connections. You're closing Guys, oh my god, you're breaking generation Look at that all in a podcast session Look at that Okay, um that is crazy to think about. Well, yeah, I think that was my first time Um dealing with that and then what's crazy to me is again because I never really had the conversation around sex or dating My relationship with dating was very like Hmm I'm going through so much right now. What is your first boyfriend? Technically when I first came to America I was what age 16 17 I learned in America, July. I started dating him in October. Oh, I mind you. He was six years older than me Yes Like another part of the we need to talk about it six six five. Yeah, because I was 18 He was so many girls have that experience where they're like I was 17 Why was this 23 year old checking for an honestly? Love him down Is well like why were you checking for me? Yeah, and like if you see the size difference between me and that man I don't like I would never oh, I feel so bad saying this online But like I will say I did just go through something in Nigeria that made me come to America So I feel like my head wasn't in the right place with regards to connection and like you know sex and everything like that Hey, yo, I've been through lots of Would you say anything is after the incident in Nigeria? Would you say that That experience maybe triggered you to be like hypersexual or want to Maybe reclaim your sexual autonomy in a way. It's something I asked myself a lot because I've never been hypersexual Like I've been I've I've gone four years without having sex After being active and I've also gone and I'm old from times in long distance relationships So like I'm not having sex like Every day and I'm not someone like I've had a lot of sexual partners, but It was always like more of ex I'm more of an experienced type of person. I curious to kill the cat is me Like yeah, I'm like oh there is an orgy in DC that I should partake in after I had a orgy before that would be fun Let me go try it That's literally me. I wouldn't do orgy's every other day. Oh a threesome That might be cool to see what that's about. I want to explore my pleasure. I'll go do that It was less from like a desire and need and more of like curiosity and Often times just fun and it was always very safe very intentional and I think that was because I think I did a lot of work To make sure I had a choice when my choice was taking away from me So for timeline purposes right my first boyfriend was when I first came to America Then we broke up then I went to college and I would didn't date anyone in college Like I was very much like just focused on college Louisiana So very much focused in school and then after college I started like dating And I met like a Muslim guy who was very strict and I met another guy But after the Muslim guy was too much. It was a lot of control And then all this time I'm like talking to a bunch of people now girls are in the mix But I'm also like I still was very much like I don't want any of this. I'm just very focused in work that I'll always make sure I had that choice. What about you? I mean, I think for me I definitely had this desire to be like perceived as a sexual being being in a space where people ignored black women I realized that after the fact and I had You know had a boyfriend when I was 16 oh wow, you know as we were dating obviously sex came up for Came up because you're young and When you're 17 and like your hormones and everything or raging You obviously want to partake in things and do things to make this person that you like and love Feel good. Yeah, so how did you navigate desire and dating? I mean as best as you could as someone who didn't have any sort of outlet to talk about sex But who was also dealing with being a black girl in boarding school and wanting to also be desired in this way It's like a tug of war in a way And then you also feel really guilty and then you're navigating guilt and I just think that's a recipe for disaster I think the navigating was a disaster You know it ultimately Let you know there's so many situations. I think back on now and I'm like Yikes That was coercion like that wasn't supposed to happen I should have stood up for myself or I shouldn't have put my you know I'll say things like I shouldn't have put myself in this situation mind you I didn't you know what I mean like I thought it was so cool to date someone significantly older than me and being desired by This person was a badge of honor and I was so mature and also just being the eldest daughter being incredibly adultified at a young age and being Perentified. I thought I was so grown so wise, but You don't know what you don't know and you don't know and at the end of the day no matter how grown I thought I was I didn't have experiences You know and I didn't have the language sex sometimes can be an emotional journey depending on like how you view it And I didn't even define for myself what that meant I didn't even realize that this was something that was for me And so this when you like the question is so funny to me because like I didn't think I was navigating anything like I was just it was just you're just constantly torn I've talked to so many girls who tell me that when they were when they lost their virginity for the first time They felt so much guilt. Mm-hmm. They felt so icky and gross They cried after they had sex for the first time and it was just such a traumatic experience for them And they felt so bad. They felt like they let people down and Like it just like you let people down because you did something with your body. Yeah, and you were saved And I always asked I'm like did you use a condom? Yeah, were you safe? Did you know is you know like did you take all the We're not taught to do that like sex edge is usually for the guy and they say put a condom on Yeah, that's it right and then imagine you as a girl Not being told like make sure he puts a condom on Yeah, and also it's like the condom is something that the man brings like I'm not bringing a condom And if you bring a condom you're fast like why do you have a condom? Yeah, like we don't young girls Don't get to understand that and then even for the pleasure part, right? You're taught that the pleasure is his like Do you know how many young people women even people my age and grown Generally think sex is ended because he has come Yeah Yeah, so like when you when you asked me how have I navigated I didn't navigate it. Yeah, I think we're happening to me Things were happening to me things feelings and things were happening to me too. That's crazy Feelings and things were happening to me and you were just thought caught in the state of like In between and you're like oh, I want folks especially folks who are younger than us. We're both 28 Um, if you're listening to this that The first decision you should be making is what your stance on sex is yeah, that's why I admire virgins Virgins who are educated about their virginity and let me explain what I mean by that I love a woman who was said to herself. I do not want to engage in this desire or practice until I feel ready Not because I want to give someone away, but she's just like until I feel ready or until I want to engage in this Yeah, those people I admire so much because The coercion and pressure by men or outside society to give this thing out or not lose your virginity blah blah blah Is noise to them It's just simply noise because for me I remember they're embothered by their choice on bothered by their choice and for me You're so right and things happen to me because My understanding of sex has always been the guy wants to have sex right? That's the guy's pleasure and if you're even with a woman It's this is forbidden sin so that's no even a question on conversation a question and The guy has to come it doesn't matter if you cause and if you don't come it's your difficult your heart Oh, you're not wet. That's your problem. It's not his There's zero safety with regards to like both of you's exchange of fluids and the most frustrating thing about it too is This idea that you have to make sure he's enjoying the experience Like you're not a participant in this experience too and when I tell you all this is me going very loud The amount of times where like I was in a bad situation even after my assault where like I wanted to say We should for my my viewers who don't know about I don't know if he for sure Yeah, I was sexually assaulted by professor in Nigeria before I left He just Wanted is I think this you there's a documentary about sex for grades that a lot of African girls face It's also a thing in the west so it's not necessarily an African thing But I noticed this very prevalence in Nigerian universities where Male professors would want female students to sleep with them for grades He would here. I was in his office and he's like you're gonna come into my offices in tanke from tanke is a city a town Um on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 2030 that I like giving me times and everything and You either did that or you failed school and even during conversations with colleagues and peers um The women who you know when like you see this particular professor with a lot of girls And you wonder why and they're like always are mentors are like we're just mentees But then you realize no he's no mentor They're the girls who's even if they're the smartest women It doesn't matter how smart they are because if they don't open their legs in this case for this man They feel out of school and this is their one ticket out of this town or this city and I was 15 and I remember staring at him when you first gave me the position going sir. I'm just 15 Like I had a hijab on I because it was a Muslim school most of the university So I had my hijab on my black and white outfit so much for modesty so much for modesty and it wasn't even crazier was I disappeared from not school after that experience like I literally like I have colleagues who I went to law school with who So today would be like you were there one day and you just left and it was the most traumatizing thing for me when um In his office it happened because My like I'd been so independent from my family like I was the one who told my mom I didn't want to be close to her in Lagos because I was in a different state I didn't want to be close to my family. I wanted to explore. I wanted to live life And it felt like it was the consequence of my actions And when I first I didn't even share how deep because I didn't want them to feel like I was solid Um, I just told them like this is what this professor is saying to me that I just even gauge how I could engage with it And I remember um them saying like if you just didn't if you just calm down if you just didn't show yourself If you don't if you just didn't once all this attention this one of happened with the hijab you told them you had to hijab on Oh, they knew I had to hijab on I'm still Sophie. I'm still going to like with the hijab on without a hijab with my titties out with my titties closed I'm still going to be my personality. Yeah, and um, it was just more than a way to blame you Is always going to blame the woman so I remember I remember that and then just leaving and then coming here so for me Dating and desire after that was so interwoven Because the choice was taking away from me So when I talk to young girls now not even from the place of trauma anymore But it's from a place of I want I want my Young girls my nieces anyone who's listened to this to know that you should always have a choice like when you're engaging In something that has to do with you and somebody else you should always have a choice um Just thinking about that now and like thinking about people I dated after like and it wasn't There's certain situations where like it wasn't necessarily even like coercion right so yeah, I know so many women raise your hand in the comments or If you feel safe enough to comment this if not like send us an email or DM or if you don't want to that's fine But just think about this how many women are Exhausted tired you're with your partner in bed and you're sleeping and you just really don't want to have sex But like he's come home His thing is hard and he's just poking in there and you just said baby. No, I'm tired But he doesn't take no for an answer. Yeah, and he just couldn't see proceeds to try to have sex And you just give up you just like I just don't want to fight with this you just take it like And so many men still engage in sexual acts even when the partners because they feel like they have ownership over your body And so when women allow that to happen because for them It's like I'm already in the marriage. This is my boyfriend. I am tired. I am exhausted. I might even be Going through some depression, but he wants sex like I may have just had a baby. I was just thinking that all the six weeks is up I know how I know how much he's been waiting. It's been six weeks. He needs something Fuck him on that something. Fuck him and that's something. Oh if I could cut a dick off It's so crazy the concept of a woman being sexually assaulted by her husband like never crossed my mind Until I was like hearing some auntie speak Like when I was in college and I was I was overhearing like I wasn't in the conversation But I was overhearing conversations and I was like and I was like thinking to myself. I was like oh, that's rape Oh, that's rape. Oh, she got raped. Yeah, by her husband and that also That affected me a lot actually was as magnified as me finding out that boys and girls have different standards for sex Like you know how I mentioned on the other episode finding out that married woman were getting raped by their husbands and they're just letting it happen Was it this spelled everything that I thought about This marriage thing about having the autonomy and like the the the sex like being married is the unlock to This sexual freedom because As a married woman you should be able to tell your husband like you don't want to have sex and he will respect that because That's his wife and even thinking about this from Most married women too because and I'm not saying you have to have sex to like be okay in a marriage But because a lot of times when people get married the women don't understand choice don't understand their sexual needs Don't know how to communicate this. They don't even know what they're supposed to know They go into a relationship where their entire idea of sex has been told but as told to them by their religion their culture is Once you're in this marriage there you go he would tell you what to do and a good man selfish as he goes tells you Oh when I need sex I'm just gonna put it in you have been saved for me you've been saved for me Do we not understand how correct how many and Why often times say this double standard Never sits well with me is Why can't why aren't men saving themselves for you too? That's why I'm saying you that's what radicalized me Why is there no? Why do I get a dirty man? Why do I get a salede salede man like community? Why do I get that and and I have to be In the same religion like the child is telling us that we should all hold ourselves till marriage So why is the society saying oh boy, you're a man. He can't hold himself. Why the fuck nuts? Why not blue balls? I was slice your dick. No seriously No, why do we get to get this community dig this nasty boy like I don't want that. I want a clean boy too I want I want I want him to save myself for me. I want him to save himself if he's not saved I don't want him. I don't want him if I let's figure it out together I don't want an experience man. We'll experience together We'll both of us sit down we'll turn on the TV and we'll watch some thing together So we could figure out how to do this thing. It'll be the blind leading the blind. The blood does be blind together Why must why must you be the expert because women's world is even different too So maybe the people you've been sullied with Now you gotta come to me and I gotta take care of that. Why do I get a hole? Why do I get a why? I don't want that I want someone fresh clean clean Oh and the men will tell you that oh they don't condoms don't fit them or condoms irritate them so they can't use condoms to oh Shady for oh I mean You know with the married married woman being sexually assaulted by their husbands when I overheard these aunties talking like this And then they're like you know and that's how I ended up with XYZ kids. I know and I'm like people There was a result of this Yeah, you're just living with an accepting and it's normal. Why do you even like the idea of like birth control I wish we should get into to birth control and like you say oh My husband said I can't take birth control if kids happen kids happen. Who is guessing pregnant him or you That's not a guy's a pregnancy because I can't ever get this Because y'all will see me I would I would lose my shit because pregnancy is a life or death situation It's a disability. It's a disability and you're telling me you're going to be more women needs to be radical I you know it's crazy. No, but you know, I'm not a feminist No, no, no women are famous because let me tell you something When I see people talk about angry feminists and they're like Chimamanda disappointed me the other day because she talks a lot about how like you're feminist or too angry. Okay, ma'am All right My thing with what she said is I don't like when people choose to fixate on the Father end of the spectrum like this spectrum doesn't exist Meaning there are people who are always going to do too much and that people who are going to do very little People in between that people who are on this side who swing a little bit too much will swing a little too Like like Everything in the world has that so you can't as a prominent figure then focus on this one thing because oh, they're doing too much but let me tell you this Angry women Deserves to be angry. Nothing you can tell me Nothing in this world could you could tell me would let me tell you okay? Let me tell them to calm down because even as we're talking now as I'm opening my mouth and tell you guys the things that women deal with I'm angry I'm actually not angry and I'm like why am I so calm? Yeah, we're sitting here. Yeah, we're not shouting though. Yes Yeah When you think about the layers upon layers from childhood to adulthood that women have to go through and deal with Mm-hmm, and nobody should come in here telling me what's about men. I'm not talking about men in this conversation right now I'm talking about you as a woman. Okay, don't fix me But see I'm ready to get you angry. No, see like we can't even help it like we can't even help it because Thinking about married women and just that and just triggered a lot of anger in me because What a woman doesn't know What she doesn't know because she was a psychological warfare think about it. Well, women go to my Spoken about period in hormones and PCOS and endometriosis and mental issues and PMDD and the lack of research around I have a lot of research and a freaking pap smare of you. Have you seen oh? Oh, I'm yelling I get it you need your space take this moment. Thank you. Thank you very much It's important like we don't have enough hours in a day to talk about how and this is why it's locked up a world we were dealt as many of it easy I'm telling you if men if men's ejaculation was Similar in pain levels to a woman's worst period. Mm-hmm. The world would be a better place I'm telling you if for a man to ejaculate he had to go through the same amount of pain on the woman's worst day of her period And fill the amount of that social that happens is the same amount of blood that we lose on our worst period They usually for me is the second day. What about you? Second day. Second day. Yeah, that's the second day period Well, light a light someone be like This world will live in it. We will have found I'm telling you this world. They will have found a research to cure that Immediately and if it was linked to a woman in any way women will be free in this life Hashiki No, seriously though Dating what does dating look like for you now? I have a partner and Is your family know about your partner? I mean, after they watch this, they'll find out. What was that really? Yeah, where really? Yeah, I don't I don't talk to my parents about anything Black we talk about this with about this We'll be annoying. They're around and They're around because apparently there's allegations that I'm a lesbian sure Um, yeah, in my community apparently I'm a lesbian like I'm not gonna let you do look the part I'm so you know, we're seriously. I'm so dead as That's like the best thing anyone's ever turned on being so serious. Are you serious? Yeah? Are you just saying that to say that? No, I've been just saying that but not even for the podcast No, no, no, you actually made it definitely exciting. No, I'm that that's such an aunt. Thank you That's like to tell me that I look like a lesbian please That is thank you. You really do give Brooklyn fam lesbian And not like all those RC ones. I mean like the nerdy Brooklyn bookstore very educational sociology famed lesbians you do give that for sure I say that you know, I give very straight I get this all the time. Yeah, you do. I give very straight and I think it's just because I'm a dominant fam. So like Well, I can't say it because like I I'm I really know you know. Yeah, it's like I don't know I feel like people I'm telling you they want to say like oh, I'm doing it for attention I can't be I can't be published shut up Just mind your fucking business, bro I'm only bringing it up because we're talking about sex in this context But like otherwise mind your fucking business But yeah, people always think I'm straight. I get this all the time and it's because I'm also like I've dated men And of course a data women, so it's like a balance balance. Yeah, no, I like it because I like I don't know I feel like sexuality is a spectrum. I'm telling people to kill the cat with me. Oh, I'm always like you can't tell me I have one life and I'm going to listen to something that someone who has died told me to follow no I'm gonna explore this world. I'm going to explore like that's why I really want more people to do explore more I say I don't like it. Yeah, but explore more. Are you telling me? Oh, it's against it Please continue. It's okay. I'll just Google something In the most privileged spaces. I found that people understand that like if you think about I just think about all the Have you watched industry? No, Bob seen so there was a scene or there was a scene where Henry there's the rich white man He comes from like a lord. He's like a lord. He comes from like a huh. They all look like a rich white man Well, there's one in there. You just need to know there's one who he comes he's like a lord. He comes from like a wrist-to-crack family blah blah blah blah blah blah and His partner is sorry. This is an industry spoiler by the way, so you might want to skip but essentially his business partner wants to fucking okay, and He's a guy okay, okay, and or like is like enamored by him. It's there's a lot of really weird scenes and His wife is like can't you see he wants to fuck you or something confronting him about like him enjoying that this man wants to fucking and He goes like basically like girl. I'm not gay like I don't want to fuck him or some shit like that And then she was like well you told me that you used to suck off boys in like boarding school or whatever And then his response was like everybody's a little bit homo back in boarding school like everyone's a bit homo Yeah, everyone's doing it everybody's done everybody's explored and I was just like But it just feels like but I've like from that type of man They're very comfortable with that yeah with like exploring or like acknowledging because he very much so could I actually do believe that Henry wasn't gay. I think he just loves being Wanted and desired and if that is by a man or a woman who ever he's gonna. Yeah, or he just loves idea of like I think for me my my lack of understanding around people who are judgmental about same-sex couples being queer is the fact that like It really first of all is none of your business because it really is none of your business and to the doctrines you follow truly are Warped in belief systems that you can't Carole or quantify like you can't you can't properly say this is exactly fact and because I did this before We're gonna say what religion says because we did that for sex earlier. I love this So Christianity said there's no Christian answer They all teach that people with same-sex attraction was treated with dignity But they're not approved of same-sex sexual relationships because they define marriage as male and female by contrast a lot of protestant bodies are fremen and In recent years they've taken the bands off it. So from the bible's perspective It really isn't clearly stated but the reason behind why this is frowned upon is because You know in the bible it often talks about male and female and when you talk about sexual Perversion then people switch the language in a way. So that's for that to include same-sex relationships Today is him also does not have one answer But it typically rejects same-sex relationships and does not recognize same-sex marriage as well Simply again because marriage they say is between a man and woman Islam Has said that it's not permitted and it's no recognizing classic Islamic law but it's not In the actual Quran like it's just practice Human beings just said no, they're not interested Hinduism is the same way. There's no really any universal binding But some groups argue that Hinduism actually supports it But it just depends on who's teaching it which is typical for religions in that way again Buddhism is the same thing Buddhism just says you all be celibate What is it just like say to yourself to yourself and find inner peace? Yeah, no seriously They're not wrong because if you avoid a lot of problems If you just So the brutal honest truth is most traditional authorities do not affirm same-sex relationships But most religious texts do not explicitly state it people just turn religious text into their thought process Now I did not say any of that to change your perspective of your thoughts on also we're not religious scholars Yeah, we're not religious scholars in anyways Why bring that up is because for a lot of times when we have conversations about desire About wants about sex A lot of people's arguments is based on religious teachings but what I also like to bring up is When you ostracize when you mutilate when you insults when you indoctrinate when you tear apart people that also goes against religious teachings because while you end up doing is judging people for their actions Or rather than being following them with love with support with so on and so forth with is which is Always going to be my issue like at the end of the day like if you're listening to this and you're like Oh, this is this is too much or it's too secular to do that and you feel affronted Maybe you should confront why you feel that way because this is just general knowledge Because people like me exist in the world people like us exist And I think the beauty of us having conversations like this is because we're not judgmental It's because we're what we've been very curious all our lives and we're able to make decisions about our bodies Based on the fact that we have the choice to do so We don't let anybody take that choice away from us when you were talking about um people are judging In somebody coined this term like sinners judging sinners for sending differently And I don't even like to think of same sex as a sin or anything because religion cold practice Anything I practice or partake in has to make sense to me You know, I think one of the things and everything that you read that was just such a clear line the fact that There is nothing in the Quran or there's nothing in the Bible or nothing like there's nothing in the text that have been dropped down from a drop down to earth for us From this higher power that we worship About same sex Like I think the Quran is one of the most logical texts and like I said, I'm not as religious scholar, but I think the vagueness around queerness in the in these texts are for a reason Right exactly like I said before my religion has to make sense to me exactly and if it doesn't make sense I It doesn't make sense to me for someone to choose To be gay to choose to make their life harder to choose especially if you come from a conservative Muslim background of Well-functioning well-reasoning person who is doing well in society has a great job whatever it is right Even if you're not it just does not make sense to me That someone would choose to make their life harder also even my argument often is like when you have Like teenagers who have never been exposed to the outside world at all who've never read books about gay people Never had anything to do with anything about gay people who say oh, I'm gay and you go what did you learn that? It's none of you like there's no way God made a mistake if you believe in God It's just I don't believe that and I don't believe that people are born in this earth to suffer in the way like humans really want Other people to suffer because they are self-righteous Yeah, because is that self-righteousness? I'll call you to hell if you believe in heaven and hell And like this like even talking about like queerness and same sex and also just thinking about sex as well The rules that they live by don't even make sense to me don't even make sense to them But they follow it because they rather move mountains before they change like a behavior I truly genuinely do believe that yeah queerness sex I think it's all inextricably linked yeah people doing things or Respecting rules even if they don't understand why or how they're just doing it because that's what the people before them Did I am privileged because I don't live in a society that forces me to act a certain way I have a lot of freedom to say and do whatever I want. I'm an American and So I understand it's easier said I can say it because of who I am and where I've been born And I can fight back against these things for me the only thing I would ever ask people who blindly follow Rules that they actually have never even looked into for themselves Is why why not just try like what what is like what why not what what is it gonna cost you if you know you're gonna Hold on to your belief right you there's nothing that's gonna shake you right there's nothing that's gonna shake that Relationship that you have to your belief Why not just look and just hear the other side People don't want to do that. I mean it's fear and yeah, it's fear. They're so scared of the unknown The one thing stopping human beings from truly truly coming together is that fear of the unknown like Where I'm united as a word right now and I if I'm telling you If you speak to anyone in America right now anyone maybe let's go to Minnesota Ask a white woman from Minnesota. What's what does iran or iraq look like they cannot tell you they probably will tell you It's desert land And the women are suffering because they have to wear their hijabs and then which some factors of that could be true Why the point of it they do not know But they've heard stories they've been told certain things so blindly they're gonna follow that and fear is always the best way To get humanity to turn on each other That's it because if you're even going to follow the argument of like oh, it's not right Let's bring it back to sex the wherever we've heard says that like sex is only valuable Or normalized when it's within a marriage both society has just made it easy because yes, it's within a marriage But society does not frown upon the man if he's the one going outside of the marriage by frowns upon a woman And if you argue with a woman that like yes with mommy's men and women have to abstain from marriage But it's a guy. He's not he's not gonna change So now that's the sites is acceptable in society now So at what points would be acceptable for women to be able to do the same 10 years from now 20 years from now Or do we have to be the ones who are the protectors of this faith of same sex marriage? I mean marriage has to be you know, or be sex has to only be in a marriage And the woman has to just be chab be the only one who wears a chastity belt. I think it's so interesting Anyways, I think we went down that tangent because we're talking about Dating and our experiences with dating and desire and I feel like now with dating I'm a lot more intentional about dating and I'm very I'm very happy leave married single and in a complicated relationship So So life my life is oftentimes great But I feel like My biggest takeaway when I started like fully being intentional about dating is boundaries and knowing exactly what I want Like a lot of young girls weren't raised to also realize they have a choice Yeah, dating We are raised under the idea that like we're supposed to wait to be chosen So the guy is supposed to take you out open the door if you do the meal Take care of your life. You're supposed to wait until he's ready and then he's gonna do the question And I think that even in itself has a psychological Sort of like effect on women because that to me is unfortunate because at the end of the day women are then taught to Constantly be the ones waiting And you can't have a choice. I was known So many young women when I talk about wanting to get married But they go to say what I want to get married, but they've never gone on day Or they're not going to the solo day. Yeah, but they don't know where to go to find days. They don't let me try apps They're like oh my god will find me a man's turn where you've been in your house reading It's not how that works. Yeah, to date girl. I mean Look at me wrong men suck like for like listen like I Like putting out it being a creature that is sexually attracted to men is so It's so fortunate. I'm so sorry for y'all. It's so disappointing. We touched on a whole lot of topics. We talked on a whole lot of topics Literally like I will say like the ADHD of it all like we I do think this episode can be misconstrued Very easily for people who do not want to listen For people who are not thinking critically. Yeah, because I think we we have iterated over and over again To be sexually liberated doesn't mean you're out here doing it all Like wildly loosely whatever you however you want to define it I don't think sexual liberation has to do with the amount of people that you have sex with. Yeah. Oh please As nothing to do with that. No, it is not What we do hope you walk away from this episode is Unlearning or at least like Unlearning the shame that is associated with sex Let's talk about sex baby find friends to talk about sex with Um, when I'm not asking you to talk to your mom or your aunties. I wish they would talk to us But I hope that if you're of age like br and you're having a planning to have kids that the way you talk about your sons Are intentional the way you talk about your daughters are intentional I have friends who are at this age. We're still saying that. Oh, I'm going to make sure my son You know, it doesn't find any wayward girl. Oh, and he's a two-year-old child like girls sit out Or you know, you're gonna have a girl who she has to have pretty here because the guys are going to want her Be very intentional now when you're thinking about sex about choice about intention with your kids like And if you're growing up now navigating desire and wants and needs never let shame be the driving factor And how you live your life you do not deserve to live in that way Instead, I think your choice should be the most important one and let me say this people make bad choices people make good choices you can never like Hope you can always hope that like oh fine I'm gonna hopefully make a good choice, but allow yourself have a choice and don't allow shame be the driving factor With any decision you make in life especially about your own body like if you want to fuck Fuck from now till tomorrow just be safe with it because STDs and babies are real You don't want that child The fine religion and in the fine culture and then also so you can easily recognize what control looks like yeah Um, it's important that you Define your faith for yourself and also understand you can be faithful and instill be a sexual being. I think sometimes I feel I feel that the both the two can't coexist Yeah, there's no world or reality where you can be or even be a sexual being that's educated about what sexual what sex is You know, I'm saying because I know like a so many of my older Sisters I would say who Because of the idea that they had to wait till marriage. They didn't even know what sex was They didn't try to be curious about it because it made them feel like they were a dirty or they were too curious or too fast when You're about to get married allegedly and you're going to have to do this thing for the rest of your life If anything you should know what you're getting yourself into the way you the way you go through marriage therapy is the way you Should go through sex therapy where you should be healthier by your productive body Do you have a woman who don't talk about periods who don't talk about like your menstrual cycles who don't talk about any of this thing because of shame Shame the only night you can actually talk about it is the night before you're about to engage in activity with your husband for the first time from aunties I can't imagine how uncomfortable So we know that you have been saving your flower for this person It's going to hold to but don't shout too much so it doesn't scare me away. Okay, when he's going to that's what they say Oh my god, he's going to lay there on you and he's going to put it in and it will be painful but don't shout once The day you enjoy it and you have babies if you don't have babies the first time you have babies the second time Oh God no So much seriously, I don't know is that radical feminism now so bad you Also understand that you can have desires and boundaries that you can coexist as well like the we were saying before about faith And being a sexual being you can have these desires, but also be like oh no, I don't want to engage with this in this way Ultimately everything and I hope you leave every episode with this because that's always going to be my message Is know yourself know thyself know your words know thyself because if you know thyself You're unbreakable no one can sway you trick you nothing like you You're making decisions from a very grounded place and also do your pleasure matters You're pleasure matters. It doesn't end when he comes it does not end when he comes it does not end there girl That's all I have to say there are like that's it. I think this is an important conversation So glad we had it together because I feel like we both come from very similar but also different perspectives on this and My entire premise on the internet is being the oddity right someone who's Unapologetically authentically myself and that sometimes feels like a lonely road because you I'm oftentimes around about people who don't think very similarly to the way I think and When I do say certain things it feels like oh my god. That's crazy. That's Sophie saying it. That's so bold. That's so loud Am I too loud? Because it's not the norm and then I see what you're doing with your podcast and it's so important that young black African Muslim women are having these conversations openly and I know We oftentimes think about these conversations as things that we need to have behind closed doors because I have no fucking idea why actually makes no sense, but we talk about this but I really think there is value and beauty in open conversation because it destigmatizes the things that we're so scared to talk about It removes the shame from it It makes these conversations feel like normal It just makes it important to the conversation More young women especially everyone should talk about FGM and it shouldn't just just be the United Nations talking about it More African women also not even just talking about FGM, but also understanding its connection to the shame of sex Understanding to its connection to pedophilia understanding how virginity is tied into all of this and the purity politics of it all This is all inextricably linked to controlling in its bodies It all is and because you don't feel like your controls Doesn't mean you're not controlled and this shouldn't be a radicalization of your thoughts it simply should open up a curiosity hopefully I think if you've gotten to hear and if you're one of those people who listen to the full two episodes let us know in the comments um I really think that this should be a conversation that you and your friends should talk about No matter what that you should talk about with your parents and Find out why there's pushback if there's any find out why they still feel their shame because we've given you the words for it We've spoken to you about why people are gonna push back. Why are you gonna feel some shame? Why this is not something that is widely talked about You should know it's all about control and one thing about both of us is we're in control of our lives No one is going to control my life on this earth I get one life you only have one life to live you have to make it count and you have to choose it for yourself Yeah, I had a lot of Not hesitation because Like it was hesitation. Yes, I was nervous. I was nervous to film film this episode because you know I kind of get jumped on the internet You know it's crazy. I kind of get jumped on the internet get jumped Why is it because of my name the already I want to get I don't want Yeah, you don't want you don't want that but like honestly, I would say your Muslim community Is different from my Muslim community? I say or maybe I just don't give I don't give a fuck no, I take that back I think I just don't give a fuck because yeah, I don't like when people jump me, but like If you're gonna jump me and tell me Shut up I recently I recently saw a video from a creator who is just like I've no one has ever come on the internet and read me the Filth and it's changed my opinion of myself for a change to how I view things and Period the diddo I feel the exact same way and When I say jump and honestly attempt to jump me do be jumping I realized That I have to just separate myself from this community because they're not even like being full ony and being guinean Be actually being a part of this community is just one part of me I was raised in New York in America. I went to boarding There's so many other parts of my life that I'm also building community for yeah, and so for me this one part Which I'm glad it's just one part of my life is not I'm so sorry, but you guys are not gonna kill me You guys are not gonna kill me. Yeah blood is on your hands. I'm talking with us all the time like If you can have a thing piece about why I'm the worst Creator in the entire world. I can have a thing piece about why you're the worst person in the entire world If you can have a thing piece about how I shouldn't be queer I can have a thing piece about why you should know these traits Men you like no seriously though like we could go we could go band for band we could go argument for argument We could go on crazy, but also people have different type of energy on the internet because when these people see you in person Because I have seen a few of you in person and you don't have the same energy They never have the same energy in person because people feel a level of Like I guess safety behind their screen so they can act and speak however they want and which is fine But I think for me a lot of my hesitation comes from obviously like I didn't fall over cooking a tree like my family is obviously gonna see this and be affected by this but What I'm realizing is In what way? What do you mean? so I I'm off the same mentality We're both movies. We've said this a lot. We're both Muslim Whenever a lot of young Muslim girls say this that their family is going to be affected by their actions They say that a lot and then I always want to break it down. What does that look like? It's like I think I mean they're just going to be really upset and But what is it? I want no I'm serious. It's like I want you to say it I mean, it's like calling of my siblings and then like I really care about my siblings Well, like what would they say because I want people to understand like what we have on the line here I can go okay. Let me give an example. Yeah, so I remember during COVID. I had a partner at the time Love you um and I remember I just gone viral and I had a bikini on and My mom called me and my auntie was on the phone and she called me the worst child on earth a bastard That's why my dad left. She said that she said I was a wayward loose cat essentially. Like what she said in our language. That's so rude Like they're so creative She was like my body has been run through. I am a disappointment to the family I would amount to nothing. Look at me now Said so much right and that was just calling me on the phone like this was face time And my mom was on the phone to crying. She threw herself down the stairs I've said this story before when she was on the phone Called my brother called my uncle's my aunties. They called me Add a cousin who I was really close with at the time her parents cut her call our all ties with both of us She was gonna come visit me in America. They called her and told her if she'd gone that flight. She was gonna be disowned too Call all ties without my cousin No spoken to an uncle in about eight years now like all my siblings and all of them thought I was like the worst child on earth. So like I survived No, I mean listen when you put it like that. Yeah, I mean, it's just drama They scare you with drama and I feel like I have been scared by drama They're alive. They're alive and we're fine And they're gonna be fine my truth is my truth whether I said it on a podcast or not This is something that they would have to live with regardless. You're gonna you they're they were gonna learn this about me at some point Because I don't know why but when I was young and I I guess I always knew this was gonna happen where I was gonna get to a point where I was gonna be in contention with my parents And their beliefs and understanding for what my life was supposed to look like and what I knew my little Secret life that was building for myself like I always thought like I always say this But I was living a Hannah Montana life and I this podcast is Truly me breaking out of that Hannah Montana lifestyle and just generally being like well, this is me And and guess what and I Ultimately, I do think I just saw another creator a creator talk about this about why do people say that their parents sacrifice for them Like your parents. What did your parents sacrifice? They got a job and worked it because that's what they needed to do provide for their kids Otherwise, they would have lost they would lose their kids to the state And they would become wards of state So they worked hard because they had to they had kids and you say that your parents have unconditional love for you Is it actually unconditional because if you're queer and you Move that or you move out of your parents home or you do the things that they don't you know, they don't approve of Do they still love you? Do they still fuck with you? Yeah, and I think People learn around this age when they start living for themselves myself included you realize Oh, maybe this love isn't unconditional in the way that I thought it was and so once you have that understanding of oh We were only really getting along because I was playing by your rules Mm-hmm What am I really doing this for yeah, what am I really doing because it's like oh So I'm going to start being miserable and playing by your rules and then we'll be fine again But like no because that's not that's not a life that's not a life lived and I I've always told myself If I'm 50 or whatever and my life is a shithole or whatever and I Only have myself to blame. I will be one million percent okay with that But if I can turn and point the finger to somebody else I just think that's such a hard that's a much harder thing to live with and the resentment that comes with that It's indescribable and I only say this because I have seen adults Elders who who live with this misery and this resentment and guys when I tell you I don't know what it's like to be a 50 something year old or to be a 60 something year old But I have seen people who have gone through this and it's just not worth it to me That's not I also like if you're watching this and you are somebody I hopefully you're older if you're not Please let me know if you have lived a life where you listened to your family to your parents And you are genuinely Generally from the bottom of your heart happy we need you to let us know in the comments like tell us why they were right How they were right and I mean this from a place of choice right like whether that they whether they said like You know you're gonna marry this particular person you're going to like save yourself till this you're going to Only you know be this religion like only study this thing in school Let us know whether or not you're happy and on the flip side of that if there's somebody who ended up Not listening to your parents and doing exactly what you wanted to do if you're unhappy or you're happy Let us know in the comments too. I'm curious to see Where people stand right because I can't imagine I know how unhappy I was sort of like going Through the mulls that was set for me and I know I'm happy I am now I'm figuring it all out. It's still very scary like I know for a fact that like if I did exactly what my mom wanted I would feel safer Yeah, I really would like my life would be so easy. I probably would be married with two children right now Which is scary But I probably would marry two kids. I don't know if I'll be happy to marry but I'll be married. Do you know what I mean um now I'm single living my best life traveling around the world I have my dogs and also like married in in a complicated relationship But like living my best life It's the funniest thing ever. I've never heard that before I'm just kidding. So I think for me I'm I'm curious to see what where the balls lie, but yeah I'm so curious a lot of times when topics like the surface on the internet people love to act like oh it's only you two It's only you two doing this bad thing Millions of women are having sex before marriage. Yeah, live your life, bro Yes, live your life the whole point of this episode and this before we like keep going on tangents. Yeah Yeah, choose what you want to choose. Don't let anyone dictate how you're supposed to choose you and choose you I will pick you pick you You were born for this No, quite literally literally. All right, guys That's that's it Oh my god, we did it guys if you like what you heard make sure you follow am I too loud at Am I too loud pod and you can find Sophie at the oddity T.H.C. on the score double O T.H.C. on the score O double D.I. double T.Y. And you guys if you loved what you heard and you love as much as raw vulnerability authenticity And just like figuring life out you can follow her on our terms at honor terms pod and It's matsu's socials at you old tomsy and yes, it is my name backwards. Oh You know, I always had this thing where I wanted to be named Navea because it was heaven spelled backwards and I thought I was heaven personified. I'm such a I'm so like that's what what I really wanted to so bad, but I was like I need my child that but not everybody has a child called Navea So I think we all read the same what pad book I really think it was around my what pad eras. I really think that's one of the cases. All right guys We are done with this episode Bye