Let’s Talk Being Gay & African… with Olive Okoro of Queer Motherland | AITL?! EP 65

Welcome to Am I Too Loud, the podcast. Welcome back to Am I Too Loud, the podcast with Sophie, aka the mother freaking oddity. Guys, we are so back. I feel like I'm getting my groove back, my glow back. Welcome to another episode. So before my guest joins us for this episode of Am I Too Loud, because we're bringing guests back for season three, I miss just yapping with people. Before the guest joins, I wanted to say happy Pride Month. it would be absolutely absurd of me to not do a pride episode during pride month first of all pride month is in june my birthday is in june i love the month of june it's one of my sexiest months do you guys know there's sexy months am i the only one who thinks that like january is not sexy february is not sexy even though you think it would be because valentine's day is in february it's not march absolutely not march is like i feel like march is a toddler April, May, June, chef's kiss. July, not so much. August, the sexiest of the sexiest. That eight? Eh. August is sexy. September, she's getting there. She's growing up. She's like in her early 18, 19, 20, 21s. And then let's say like October, no. November, no. December, that girl is a party animal. That's how I see my months. Anyways, so June is my birthday. My birthday is tomorrow. By the time you listen to this episode, my birthday will be the next day on Thursday. This is coming out on Wednesday. Um, and I would be in a beautiful, beautiful place having a solo vacation. Well, I wouldn't say vacation. I take that back. I will be having a solo time. Now I say that because I don't know if you guys know this about me, but I love celebrating my birthday. And this might be the first year in a really long time that I have not felt as excited to celebrate my birthday. And I think that's because my world for the past year was genuinely flipped upside down. And it's so hard for me to navigate life now. And I'm definitely just, I'm not stable. That's the best way to put it. I think it shows in my content, shows in my real life. It's just shown in my world. So my birthday is pretty interesting for me right now. However, your girl is still going to celebrate a little bit. I'm going to be staying at a resort in some state. If you follow my vlog channel, shameless plug, go follow it because we're going to be getting all the scoop about my birthday on my vlog channel because that is going to be the best time. I think I'm going to do it. And I think I don't know if I ever told you guys this for in my head, I always had plans for my different birthdays. So for me, I was thinking 24. I think I had like a dinner or 23. I had a dinner 24. I did like a little vacation 25. was my golden birthday so i had a huge party 26 i did a girl's trip 27 i did a solo my first ever solo birthday love that shout out to senkits and nevis i've told you guys the story from that trip uh 28 i really wanted to be a vacation i ended up having covid but it was fine because i really didn't i was so busy packing and uprooting my life that 28 just went by like a blur 29 i wanted a And there is no bae right now in any cationing. There is no bae in sight. Your girl, for the first time in a long time, is fully just focused on herself and her growth. And I don't think I've ever said that to you guys. I don't think I've ever said that to you guys. And I'm finally saying it. And it is so interesting to be in this mind space or mindset because I used to be the person who... I never used to think of myself as the person who wanted a vacation. But I kind of wanted a birthday where... In like my dream world, I would be on an island with a boo and me and my boo were just drinking rum punch and fucking drinking rum punch and fucking drinking. Like that was what I wanted. Like I'll have sexy lingerie on. We're going to be by the shower. They're fucking me against the shower, fucking me against the balcony, fucking me in the pool. We're making out by the pool. We're wearing matching outfits and nobody in the world will see any of this. Okay. This is just for me to have with my person. And honestly, I wasn't even deepening that as like doing it with the love of my life. I was just, I just wanted a, I wanted a body. I'm not going to lie to you. My vacation dreams for my birthday. I just wanted a body. Like in my head, I was going to invite someone who I was talking to enough at the time to enjoy and be comfortable. But that didn't happen this year. Sadly, that's, that's all I'm going to say about that. So your girl is just, she's going to be solo. She's going to have her wand and she's going to have a good time. And I know I feel like that sounds so sad. But you know what? It is what it is. It is what it is at this point. Anyways, so my birthday is going to be tomorrow. I don't even have a photo shoot. Guys, if you know me, you know every year my birthday, I go correct. I go crazy. I don't even have a photo shoot for my birthday this year. I have nothing, nothing to show for the fact that I am turning 29. And I feel like I have lived. We're going to get into this in a whole nother episode. I promise. I think I'm going to record a live episode on my birthday. And that's going to go live next week. So let's not even get too deep into my birthday. Anyways, June, my birthday. That's what's happening with that. Second thing I want to talk about before my guest gets here is Pride Month. So if you don't know. Now you know, hey, and you know, you know, the piggy ball lies in town. If you don't know, I am queer. And it's something that I shared a little bit online last year or two years ago when I first started my podcast. I sort of like hinted at it. I've done a few hints and I'm an African child and I come from a really religious background and I'm a little bit more. For me, I've said, oh, I am queer. I like women. I'm gay. I've said this a bunch of times on my channels or my profiles. However, I also am not someone who feels like that identity has to be something that I shout on the rooftops because my family doesn't accept it. Friends don't accept it. It's still, I'm never going to lie to you guys and say my life is easy, breezy, beautiful. It's not. So for me, if you know, you know, if you don't, you don't. End of story. It's not something I want to bring up a lot every single time. I'm bringing it up this time because I have someone really special on the podcast coming on today. um olive is a creator that i met i technically haven't really met her but olive is someone i sort of like got connected with online um a few months ago i saw her content i loved her content because you don't get to see a lot of african lesbians and now here's the thing There's a lot of conversations around being gay and being queer and, you know, blase, blase, blase. I mean, countries like Ghana are pushing for criminalization of gay marriage or just not a gay marriage because then we go into that. Just like criminalizing people for being queer. People are getting killed for being gay. If you follow my two lot of podcasts, you know, my thoughts on this matter are very simple. I will never and should you should never, ever, ever judge anyone based on their sexuality. It's none of your flipping business. What people do in their bedrooms is not your problem. I think the Pope actually said something really beautiful and profound the other day. He basically said that there's so many other things in the world that when we as human beings judge morality, we judge morality sometimes from a sexual perspective, meaning you are immoral because of your sexual behavior. When there's stuff like greed, there's stuff like cheating, there's stuff like killing and so many other things that should hold priority other than the fact that someone is queer or gay or having same sex or whatever the case may be. Anyways, I say all that to say, Olive is somebody who, when I watched her content, she is so educated. She's so learned. And as someone who, I don't even like to call myself a baby gay because I don't think I'm a baby gay. Your girl's been around the block. I wouldn't say I'm a baby gay. I will say I am someone who has always been open my entire life. If you know Audity, you know, you expect the unexpected. So for me, I've always just been curious. And I think I... When something is innately you, you don't make it bigger than it is. Like, do you know what I'm trying to say? Like, for a lot of women, we don't act bigger or... We don't deeper research womanhood. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Like... that's how innate it is for me. Like I've never had to research being queer because in my mind, I just existed as me. And I think there's a lot of people who are of African descent who feel the same way or behave the same way. But why it matters now as I'm realizing, as I'm growing older is as you grow older, They're young girls. The amount of DMs I get guys are people who aren't even queer, but like might be hiding something from their family or might be hiding a part of themselves they're really like nervous about. And they're shy about being vocal about these things. To me, that is why talking is important. That's why. Knowledge is important. That's why making sure the things that you are sharing with the world are impactful. So Olive Okoro, who's coming on the podcast today, is the founder of Queer Motherland. But she's also like a creator who just talks about her queer experiences, but just about being herself. And I think Am I Too Loud would get to the point where I want to interview folks like the Michelle Obamas of the world, the Michelle. um you know the big I guess big creators the Kiki Palmers the Emma Chamberlains and the people that I admire but also I want to interview folks like Oliver Corrie who are doing real work not saying everybody else is not doing real work but who are doing real work from the ground up who are showing up every single day and fighting to be better to do better to sort of like push forward things that is scary that Like, guys, I don't think I realized how much of a negative impact it would be for me to be myself. Like, it's something that I still struggle with till today. That idea that I'm simply existing and someone somewhere is looking at me. Like, imagine, like, there's a door to my right. Yeah, to my right. And I'm sitting in this room, right? I'm, like, I'm camera lights on. I'm having a blast with you guys. And there's just someone at that door with their head peeping through just like, look at that girl, asshole, this, nasty, that, like, and they're cursing me out and they're, and they can't stand me and I am simply existing. I can't find them living a life like that. And it's something that bothers me every single time. So when I see young girls like Olive just killing it and being so loud and proud and bold. themselves like I want to plot that I want to put that up I want to share about it I want to talk about I want to uplift them in any way that I can so it made sense that for to like my pride episode anyways on my on my podcast that we do a little like yap session with somebody that I will be introducing to you if you already know this person based off of like social media content then I love that and if you don't you're gonna get the chance to meet Olive really really soon Oh my God. I am so excited to be like yapping with her. I have like a little extra, you know, I write stuff for my guests. Okay. So today's episode I've wanted to have for a really long time because we're talking about being African and gay and it's pride month. So we're going to talk about all things, just us and love. And because for so many of us, like being queer is talked about, like it's something that happens outside of African culture and it's not. The truth is queer Africans exist. We've always existed in our families and churches and mosques and churches. in the diaspora on whatsapp on tick tock and anywhere um this is olive of course she's the founder of queer motherland and you can find her on tick tock at digital olive and on youtube as well welcome to am i too loud the flipping podcast olive how are y'all I'm doing good. I am doing so good. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast and happy Pride Month. Happy Pride Month. Happy Pride Month. I just, first of all, like for anyone who doesn't know who you are, like, please tell us who you are, like what you do, who is Olive online, but who's Olive outside of online life. Period, period. Okay, so first, my name is Olive Okoro. For all of you guys who don't know, I go by Digital Olive on quite literally all platforms. I love Digital Olive, like it's a digital version of myself, so you're gonna see the digital version of me, digital.olive. And I am a human rights and financial literacy content creator and I talk about all things to talk about human rights, queer Africans, European colonization, and I use my digital platform to make this nonprofit called Queer Motherland where me and my team, we advocate, educate, and build community for queer Africans across the diaspora. Because nobody ever talks about us, and I really wanted more people to talk about us, wanted more community, so I said, you know what, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna be the change I want to see in the world. So I have been a nonprofit for a couple of months now, officially on paper with the IRS, like maybe two months. But we've been doing events for like a year and I absolutely love it. I love speaking to different founders across the entire world who create queer African spaces for people. We're doing this thing called Price Saturdays where every single Saturday I meet with the founder. or a co-founder of a queer African organization on the ground in Africa. And we talk about different problems and different ways to help queer Africans. This past Saturday, I talked to a reverend who made a rainbow church in Lagos, Nigeria, out of all places. Mind you, Nigeria, you can go to jail for eight years. Yeah, he did that. And he's still preaching as well. I'm like, this is just amazing because there's people out there creating community. You're not alone. And I never want people to feel like they're alone. So that's exactly who I am. You know, sometimes I feel like I'm doing the work and I meet people who are doing the work and you're like, you're not even doing enough work. And you know what, like, no, because you know what, like your African parents, do they have three heads? That's what I was getting when I heard you talk. Now, I'm like, see, all of us now have three heads. She has one head and she's doing all these things. So I just I want to applaud you, first of all, because as someone who's as a queer African myself, when I first started. When I first spoke about it, it was like, okay, people didn't understand it. People were like, why is she doing that? Why is she destroying her life? Is that good for her? We don't need to know this. There was a lot of conversation around that. But I think thankfully for me too, I have the audience as well as the, I like to say the expectation. That Sophie is different, right? And so, and even then for me, I didn't, I never liked the idea of difference being what my norm was. Because it shouldn't be that Sophie's different. That's why she's queer. It should just be Sophie's queer because she's queer. So I love when I saw your content, just seeing how authentic you were, how raw you were, and how educated you were about your existence. because not a lot of people are too so I want to give you your flowers for that like congrats and just like being the change you want to see in the world because it's really important too and when I heard about Cory Motherland I was like okay I think I followed you immediately I don't know what which one of your videos I saw but I just saw a video and I was like okay I have to follow her she's super smart so you're Nigerian were you born back home or were you born here I was actually born in Oweri, Nigeria, and I came here when I was like two years old. Yeah. Why did not? Have you been back home since? I have not. I really wanted to be back home like earlier in my life. My parents said, absolutely not. We took you out of Nigeria for a reason. Well, you're going to stay in the US. I said, right, right, right, right, right. But I would love to go back, not even like to Nigeria, just the African continent, specifically South Africa. I would love to see Mali. I would love to see Kenya. I would love to see Ghana. see all these amazing places. But I know because I have a really big platform where I talk about being queer and being African. There are certain countries I generally cannot visit because they know I exist, and the people there literally know I exist. So yeah. I feel that, I think, and this is a conversation like I always struggle to have too because I oftentimes, I go home a lot, right? And I think thankfully there's a protection around being from the diaspora that helps us survive in these spaces. But then my heart goes out to Africans who are queer on the continent, who are hiding themselves, who are even some murdered because of who they are. I think we don't talk about that enough. And I don't want this episode to necessarily be like a wake up call to all of you, but it has to be. The whole point of me wanting to do this at the end of Pride Month was because I wanted to have you who's educated on this to talk, but also to just realize that we're normal people. We're normal people living our normal lives and having fun while we do it. And if you're able to talk about something enough, you normalize it enough. Because if the thing exists, then it's normal. Because if one person exists, it's the norm. Because God makes no mistakes. No one ever makes mistakes. The world is the world for a flipping reason. So you've, you've, thank you. You talked a little bit about like queer motherland. Now we're going to talk about that in depth some more, but what do you wish some people understood about the words like African and queer being used in the same sentence? Cause I think one of the things I always hear is like, Oh, you know, being queer is not an African thing, which is the stupidest lie I've ever heard. Mind you, we were the first human beings to be here. So what are we talking about? Colonization and religion have done a number on us. I'm telling you. No, can we actually get into that? Can we talk about the socioeconomic and political state of the world right now? Can we actually get into that? Because colonization, European colonization, Arab colonization, your religion has done a number on the African spirit. Chills. No, because like, let's bring it into like, and this is ADHD, guys. You know I'm going to drag it to somewhere, but I'm going to connect the dots. Someone, I saw a TikTok today, and it was about the FIFA World Cup, and it was a black American person, and I'm guessing like they're Afro-American, and they're he was talking about how he did not realize that the world was such a melting pot of black people. And there were so many black people in the world. And I went, what do you mean by that? And then he said he's been watching the World Cup games and he's noticed that like they were on the Swedish team or something. There's like 10 Africans or like 10 black people and the US team. There's like this many black people. And then like the Japan team or the Qatar team, I think has six black people. So he was like, there are so many of us. How did we get there? And I was like. Yo, you know, I really come to realize people don't go outside. People are not reading and people are not going outside of their bubbles. And it might I'm like, this is the number they've done on the black diaspora, because if only we knew our numbers and the impact the whole point. This is this might be very close enough to conspiracy theories, but it is really fact. The reason why the continent is impoverished the way it is, is because they've taken all the talent away from the continent. the talent is like they come and pluck kids from whether it's like the orphanage plans that they do where they adopt young children and they fly them to china or they fly them to saudi arabia or the the netherlands has a direct connection with cape verde and they have the direct pool they take i think what team was it that had like 12 ghanaian names on the team playing soccer but they're not playing for the ghanaian country and we're not winning the world cup it could be let me know if and you're so right and it's so sad to see it yeah and this we we sometimes feel like oh but we're we're so bogged down by it because we are like there's so much that's taking away from us and we now accept that those things are taking away from us and we accept what they give us as our own when we forget who we were in the first place because even bringing it back to being african and queer we as a people have had a maternal society we've had queer societies we've had powerful women in charge and Americans came and said the patriarchy should exist and we said yes if our things let's listen to the white man no no you're correct correct correct okay there's two things right the way the rest of the world takes away from Africans right this can be shown in different ways such as the slave trade as we know that was about what 10 20 million people from the West like the west western part of Africa being taken to South America and Northern America, or Europe as well, right? That's, for the time it was, for 500 years ago, 10 million people's a lot. 10 million people's not what 10 million people is right now. Like 10 million people, oh yeah, that's a whole nation back then. That's a whole part of a civilization back then. Right. I like people being captured. People like, oh, Africans sold other Africans. To an extent, yes, but you need to understand the context behind that. You need to understand different tribal relationships. You need to understand different nation relationships. You need to understand that also some people were just being stolen from their parents. Some girls were just walking down their roads and being stolen right then and there and never seen their family again. Like it's a whole context of that. And then people say, oh, but it was so long ago. History actually makes a present, my dear, my dear. Like, things happen for a reason. We did not fall out of a coconut tree. I don't know what you're talking about. We are not singular human beings. We're actually the entire context, and we're the entire product of everything that comes before us. You are a product of everything that comes before you. You're not a singular human being. And I don't think people generally realize that, because even that person you were talking about, that black man saying, oh, I never knew how much black people were around the world. My brother in Christ, open up a history book. Open up a history book made by an African person, not a... not a European, because they're gonna lie to you straight to your face again and again and again. Open up a book made by people who look like you and you're gonna see there is a vast history that you are- you are not giving- you're not immediately giving access to. You have to really look for that. And the second way with how a lot of countries have a lot of black people but Africans don't have like the same- You know how Nigerians are known for being like lawyers, engineers, doctors, like the whole thing with Africans, right? You see how a lot of us come to different countries, go to different countries, because we can't build that life in our own countries because our entire governments are being fumbled and being eradicated, being corrupted by the Western world. Like you could have a great Nigerian person wanting to be a politician and be like, I want to give props to my people. I want to give economic prosperity to my people. Here comes... A Western country. Here comes, or even an African politician who says, no, I want the money because we will never grow. What's the point of growing, right? People are lacking some type of hope sometimes. And then they come in and just destroy these great groups of people who are trying to do so much work and even using queer people as scapegoats. You see that in Ghana a lot. You see that in Nigeria a lot. You see that in Senegal a lot, where your country is literally under economic disparity right now, but you're worried about the gays. Yeah. What about the gays? What is it? The gays? Where do I even begin? I think you bring up the gun. I just, I was talking a little bit about that in the intro where I'm like, the Pope just did a little speech earlier when someone asked him about... the Catholic Church and homosexuality and how he's been very understanding. And I use that in quotes about it. He basically said, as as human beings, we focus on our morality around sexual desires, and he thinks there's so much more in the world that needs to be focused on justice, greed, stealing, cheating, killing, so many other things that should old president and the fact that someone's sexual preference is in the conversation. And even for me, I'm like, oh, that's that's like a. that's a pope answer right because he's like i'm gonna but at least it's like do you see how for africans to look at it from that aspect what someone is doing in their bedroom is should have no bearing on your life when you can't there's no food on the table you cannot eat there's insecurity young children are getting kidnapped from schools So many things are happening and your focus is to legalize. And then all that money and time are used to go and pass law. You have used to pass a law to help feed children, to put education where it needs to be. To me, that is frustrating. It is. And it feels like when we have conversations like this, it feels like it's a never ending battle because it doesn't feel like there's an end to it. Like it doesn't feel like there's a solution besides advocacy, right? Or is there something more that we could be doing even as human beings to sort of like move forward? Oh, there is an end to it. I know probably not happening. 20, 30, 50, 100 years. I think I want to just touch on our upbringing as well to like maybe sort of kick things off personally. You mentioned like you moved here when you were two. So what was your upbringing like? Not necessarily even being African or Korean, but like just as Olive, what was your upbringing like? What are your parents like? What was the goal for you? What are all those things? So I came here with my mother she was actually like running away from my birth dad so as very patriarchal man didn't do anything that he was promised to do during the marriage so we came to America specifically Texas and she redid her nursing degrees and everything she was a nurse back in Nigeria And so she had to redo it here in the US. And she met my stepdad around when I was like six years old. Then they had my two little sisters and they, I always tell people like, I didn't grow up lower class. I grew up watching my parents reach higher class status. Through all their education, through all the schooling that we had to go through, through all the lessons that we had to go through, we're a very education-focused family. And because a lot of my mother's family is also here in the U.S., it was really easy to have community here. So every single where we go in the U.S., we have some type of family member there. We always had like family events every single year. We're a very family-oriented group of people, but we're also very education forward. And because we're mostly women as well, like there's maybe four boys in the entire family out of like 30 plus girls. It is what it is. I really like it. I really, really like it. It's a vibe. It truly is a vibe. But we... Always had people around us to help us. And I grew up in a village. At the end of the day, I grew up in a village. I love growing up in a village and I love focusing on education because that's something you can control. The amount of schooling you get to do, especially in the US, like you have the opportunities to get like scholarships or sometimes loans, opportunities to pay them back. It's something I really valued growing up. No, I love that because I think that your focus on education is something that I think is also connected to me, too. I always wanted to make sure that, like, if anything, I was educated. Like if that felt like me taking my power back. I don't know if you know my background a little bit, but I came to America because I was. sexually harassed by a professor in Nigeria. And I stole some money from my mom and applied for the essays in IELTS because they kept telling me like it was my fault, it was my fault, it was my fault. And then I just was like, I can't live in this country. Now, I wouldn't say I thought America was better, but I remember thinking that when I watched Hannah Montana or Will Smith and Fresh Prince, they had some levels of law and order in where I would be protected. So that was the reason why I came here. And I remember thinking to myself, if I was here in America by myself, the one thing I would make sure I would always have is my education. And I never wanted to stop pursuing that. So how do you think your, how does your family react to you? If you ever had a coming out story, did you have any? But also how did they react to you now and the work you do as a creator? My, I came out to my parents, quote unquote came out, when I was like around 19 or 18 and it was. How old are you? If you don't mind me asking. 23. Oh, you're such a cute. Sorry. You know what? I turned 29 this week. So everybody was younger than 20. Everybody younger than 29. I'm like, oh my God, you're so cute. Girl. It's still this. We're all in our 20s. We're all in our 20s. Like anything under the age of death, you're young. I'm stealing that. Anything under the age of death, you're young. If you're not in the ground, you're a young chip. You can move. You can move. If you can wipe your... Well, I don't want to say wipe your ass, because you know what? Let's move on. But, yeah, I get the sentiment. Absolutely. And with my coming out, it was like a whole conversation. Not really. I actually just said that I was bi during a family conversation, right? My mom said, no, you aren't. And I was like, no, yes, I am. And then I started just bringing girls over, and that was that. And they kind of just were like, oh... Okay. And they kept on just be like, oh, okay. And they've met the past two of my girlfriends and they love my current girlfriend. She's lovely. And while I was going to school, the focus wasn't really on sexuality because again, we're African people, right? Don't bring your partner over. Don't do whatever. Get your degrees, get your goddamn degrees for the love of God. And with the work I was doing, I remember even telling my mom that I wanted to do this a year ago, right before I graduated with my Master's of Science and Economics. And she says, during this administration, but are you going to be in danger? Because they really care about me. They care about me being safe. That's the whole thing. I'm the first daughter of an immigrant family. Their first priority is making sure I'm safe. And she was like, oh, I don't know. I just don't know. I just don't know. And now a year later, she's saying, you know, you can do this to get tax write-offs, right? You know, you can do this to make more grant money, right? You know, you can have an event like this. She's like, actually, you can make a chapter for queer African parents who want to support their queer kids. You know that? I can be part of it now. And I'm like, you're so cute. You're so cute. Because at the end of the day, my parents want the best of me, but the best of my future. And they aren't the type of parents who... You know, it's like there's tons of parents out there who choose the culture over their children. This culture... Pause. I'm so sorry. Yeah. There is a lot of parents out there who choose culture over their children. Please continue. Like, there are a good amount. It's really sick and twisted. But... they chose me and plus also the privilege of growing up in the u.s for the love of god it's like let's let me be very frank if i was raised in nigeria this is not going to happen if i was raised in nigeria i'd already be jailed or i'd be killed like it is what it is but i was raised in the texas i'm going to take that privilege i'm going to make an organization for it i'm going to speak for people who generally cannot speak right so that's why i made queer mudland and my parents they love the organization i told them like last this past Saturday we had our first ever Pride event at a Pan-African Connection bookstore in Dallas. It was a really great turnout. We served African food. We had everybody wear their African traditional clothing and tell us what it means to be queer and also be African and we had like a pastor speak as well. It was very very nice and my parents really love the change I'm trying to do in the world because they're my mother specifically she's a very very educated woman like my dad too but my mother is very very educated And she works in mental health and she sees the good in people. She sees the potential in people. And that's what I really love. Also being part of a very female dominated family. We know what it means to be discriminated against from the get go. We know what it means to live in a patriarchal society. So we're like, why would, in my mind, they see no reason to keep on upholding these standards when we're also in a country that doesn't really, that cares a lot less about. than the Nigerian culture we grew up in. And they say, hey, as long as you're successful and you rise above your peers and you are getting your degrees, you're getting educated, all the African proverbs I heard growing up, God is with you at all times, just be safe. And I really, really appreciate that and the family I grew up in because I know that's a very privileged thing to have in this life. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. I think for me, when I think about being African, being queer, the first word that comes to my mind is fear. And I love that. Listening to you talk, there's a hint of hope. also strength in your words and I think that definitely comes from having a good support system and I think it's so disappointing when I hear people families say like they ostracized their children someone you birthed out of your birth canal because of who they become in the future And I also think it's sad when I see peers also have disdain or disgust or whatever the case may be for people who they attributes one thing or the other to. But I hear the strength in helping your voice. And I know that that's the beauty of a world that celebrates love and celebrates authenticity and celebrates people being who they are because culture is intended to be celebrated. in different forms and you as an african already exist you as who you already exist and it's i think it's a beautiful thing to have your parents especially your mom like be there for you and say those things because hopefully there are young kids out there who also wish that from their parents and don't have that and it's cool because now i hear you say that i'm about to go and text my mom and say see your mates do you see see your mates see your mates is asking for w9 and 1099 and grants and you're over here shouts and ask me like do you see like let me shape you into acceptance if that's what it's going to take sometimes it's what you do yeah sometimes Yeah, no, for sure. I love that. I love that. I want to talk a little bit more about the difference between like sort of like religion, privacy and shame. Because I think for you here, you talk, I don't know if you're religious or not, but I think one of the biggest things about I don't think a lot of things that we talk about as an African is religion is huge. It's an African religion is a. big crutch and I think there's a few questions that I got from the pod fam is what I call the folks who are listening and most of the questions when I was going through it was generally about religion and so for from your perspective what do you say to folks who are like nervous about it and we're gonna answer some questions too about that but wanted to see what your thoughts were first on it Okay, so for me talking about religion, you guys have to know my viewpoint about religion, and it's going to get you understanding about why I'm going to answer a certain way. So I grew up in a religious family, a Christian religious family. Why? Because I'm Igbo. I grew up, I am Nigerian, and you know who colonized Nigerians? the Europeans. We are not originally Christian, okay? And fun facts, it was around like the 1950s before European colonization, a good portion of Nigeria was not Christian. And I'm talking like 10% was actually Christian. After European colonization and after the Biafran War, after things like that, we are now about 60 or 70 percent christian right why again european colonization it is what it is so i tell people oh yeah i'm christian because of european colonization because at the end of the day we are not we are not you we're not individuals we are the product of everything that came before us right cool and baptized christian and then moved here and the thing about me is i treated sunday church like a fashion show the You know when people said, wear your Sunday best, I was out here popping fits left, right, up, down. And I kind of, I was deconstructing at a very young age. I remember going to this one Catholic church with my mother before she remarried. And I specifically remember the pastor talking about abortion and gay marriage, right? I didn't even know what abortion was at that time. But the way he was speaking about women's bodies and women not being able to control their own bodies made me mad. It clicked something inside me. And the way he was also talking about two people consensually being in love and not being able to get married. That made me mad. Like something was clicking in my brain at a very young age. And even while I was growing up, I was also a really big social media kid. So when people say that they prayed the gay away, I was on Tumblr watching gay people live their lives and creating amazing stuff and getting fame and notoriety, right? So in my mind, I didn't pray the gay away. I strictly remember like the age of 11 years old in my house in Houston, Texas, privately after school, I would get on my knees and pray to be gay because I want to be one of the cool kids. Like, I literally wanted to be one of the cool kids that I see online, and all the cool kids were gay. So I was like, I want to be gay. I don't want to do that. So my... And I never, like... had any religious guilt. Like, it just did not come inside me because I was like, this is stupid! This is stupid! Again, I was on social media so much, so I was actively seeing so many different cultures, so many different types of people, and so many people's ideas inside my head at the age of eight years old. That's not... I was not, like... I did not grow up in such a religious, raunchy background, like pray this many times a day, do X, Y, D, do X, Y, Z. We don't just went to church. We're culturally Christian. I'm a culturally Christian person. I do all the holidays. I do a little prayer before I go to sleep. I do a prayer when I wake up. I, on my phone screen, it says, God is with me. I cannot lose. I'm a very... I don't know the word for this, but I use God like a manifestation tool. Like God is with me. So you may be spiritual. I can't speak English. Some people call that spiritual. It's like maybe you're spiritual in the sense of like, there is something that you can do to get to somewhere and you can just, whether that's prayer that you use, whether you're manifesting, whether you're speaking it out, whatever it case may be. You say something you believe is going to happen and it happens, whether there's a force behind it or not, essentially. Yes, and 100%. And also, even the Sunday school churches, right? I love the teachings of Jesus Christ. I love how he was always going for the poor, the prostitutes, the people who are disabled, the people who did not belong to society. He always said, no, love thy neighbor. Let's fight for these people. That's a part of the Bible I really, really appreciate. Now, when it comes to religion and how I view for other people, I literally got approached last week when I was at a cafe by a woman. She's trying to see how this city, how they feel about religion and how they feel about Christianity. So we had a conversation about Christianity and I told her, by the way, I've never fully read the Bible guys. I tried to read the Bible when I was in college. I couldn't get past the Old Testament. It was too much rape and murder. I just couldn't do that to myself. So when people talk about, oh, they read the Bible and then they stopped being Christian. I'm not even there yet, babes. You are on level 10. I'm at very standard level. It's not, you're not gonna touch me. It is what it is, because I'm just not reading it. And I know there's a lot of anti-feminist rhetoric in the Bible, very patriarchal book. Yes. I do believe I'm very spiritual in the sense of there's a higher power. People are meant to be good to each other. And all religions say the same thing, like be good to each other, help other people, yada, yada. But a lot of religions are also very patriarchal in the sense that they demean women and treat them as second class citizens. Yeah. That I'm not fucking with. I just, it is not, it is not what it is. But there are tons of things I take from the Bible and say, we can apply that into our daily lives as to speak to each other and create a better world for each other. No, I love that. I think we pretty much align. I'm Muslim, and I was raised Muslim, so I'm culturally Muslim too. And I think my thoughts on it pretty much align too, which is organized religion is terrifying because when human beings... take control of something and they decide to use whatever belief system they have to oppress other people. That's what I have an issue with. Cause at the core of what I feel like religion has always been, it's all about love and care and peace. Like Islam is supposedly the religion of peace, right? Like all you're doing is supposed to be spreading peace and it's a very inward religion. So there's never a time where you should be prescribing onto other people what your beliefs are. And I think for Christianity, it was like, love thy neighbor, take care, show love, this, this, provide. And now we've turned it into this media circus. So I see, I bring up religion because of how I know a lot of young Africans who are probably listening to this are oftentimes feel guilt about what their beliefs are. Yes. But, Every time I tell someone who is Christian or Muslim to that, when they come to me and they tell me, hey, I'm feeling this way, I always say, go read the Bible and go read the Quran. Like, actually go read it. Like, read the chapters that people keep pointing out and realize that God doesn't hate you the way they tell you he does. he really doesn't because the god that you serve does not hate you that way did not say any of those things that all these other people are telling you in fact it's your journey and your journey alone so i think it's i wanted to just bring that up a little bit because i think faith is really really important and um there's a lot of religious trauma that a lot of africans face like these three young africans when they're leaving home and even not necessarily queer africans alone but young africans in general um face a lot of that too so people tend to use faith as a weapon rather than a source of healing and I hope that as folks continue to grow and educate themselves, they're able to take back that power away from other people and simply do the research for themselves, which is where I think education or just also strength comes into play. Yeah. Go ahead. Do you have anything else? No, I love that and I'm glad that you also are part of another major religion and saying that queer Africans as well being like You, it really is a cultural thing. Like, I tell this all the time. I don't truly believe that any of these religions were meant to be used as harm. People just like to have power over other people. It is like, it's humans. It's a very human nature because at the end of the day, are you wearing XYZ? Are you practicing XYZ? Are you saying that women are second class citizens because your book tells you or because you want to have control over women and you want to have control over your entire civilization? Are you saying that gay people are bad because you truly believe that or are you saying because you just want to have control over other people and you said, hmm, what is a minority group that we can target today? Are we saying that black people cannot enter churches and different people of different skin colors cannot marry because it's in the Bible? Or are you saying that because you want to have control of how people love? Because when you control people's gender expression, which is such a very human trait, when you control people's sex preferences, very human traits, you control themselves. And even with the whole divide and conquer, right? A lot of religion is about that. You put your religion into different groups and civilizations. And you make sure that, oh, this group believes this. This other group believes this, right? Now they're divided in that sense of belief. And the religion is such a, again, very personal thing. You mess up with people's minds. You've been implemented for so long with you steal their children, you tell the children, oh, but you have to believe this, and you're also the religion that you grew up in, whether it be voodoo, whether it be your native African religion, right? That religion is bad and it's demonic. You tell people that over and over again for generations, and you're saying like, oh, this one that was brought in by people who do not look like you, that's a good religion. You should believe only in that one. It fucks with people's heads. And then they try to mimic that in their own culture and it's now working because there's a disconnect. Because that's how we believed in the first place. Yes. You know, there's certain things you want to say, but then you just thought about it because I didn't think I wanted to be like, I just want people to fucking exist for themselves. Like, and I wish I wish to God. I think that's why my too loud comes in. Right. It's like this idea that genuinely be your broadest, brightest self. You only get one life. And I and I understand in a lot of ways, like the oppression that comes with literally being who you are. And I think that's why, again, them places like Queer Motherland or just work that you're doing is so important. And so before we head into some more of the questions I like kind of light, because I feel like we also people you never really hear black Africans like lesbians talk about dating. So I think I want to like end with like fun dating questions. What does a safer world for queer Africans look like to you? Legalization across the entire world. Period. Sorry. Yeah. No, no, you're real, real. Because people ask me that all the time. Like, so what are you fighting for? I'm like, oh, babe, we have an entire document, actually. We know our goals. This is a very clear-cut world that we're trying to look for. And when I talk about legalization for queer Africans across the diaspora, it's a very... obtuse, very obtuse goal and a goal that people cannot imagine. And I want to bring up this thing called radical imagination and that this is what guides my content. This is what guides my entire life. Radical imagination. It was very popular during the civil rights movement and slave rebellions across Haiti, across North America. Great. They're very popular. And it's an idea that you are fighting for a world that you are not currently in. What does that mean? Example being Harriet Tubman, right? She went back and forth from slave plantations to the north trying to get people to freedom because she is actively fighting for a world that does not currently exist, but she knows that one day black people will be free in North America. She knows that for sure. Haitians, without Haiti getting freedom from the French, slavery would have happened another 100 years. Babe, Haiti was the one, the one and only. Haitians did their goddamn thing when it came to slave rebellions, right? They were actively fighting for a world that did not exist, but they said, you know what? This should exist. Because this sidebar, this sidebar is the fact that Haiti is still suffering for that rebellion until today. What do you mean you owe France money, nigga? Yeah. What do you mean you all friends? I don't think we even deep that. The fact that they said, oh, you guys want to behave this way. We're going to punish you for the rest of time. Haiti is still suffering until today. Asia should be one of the strongest, most powerful black nations in the world. The West would never allow it. And it breaks my heart every time when I think about it. Sorry. The West would never allow that. Because what do you mean? They were a domino effect. They said they did the first domino and that team took their fucking lives. Haitians took everything out of them to create a domino effect for the entire black population of the world. And, okay, radical imagination. So when I say that, it's like right now, there are over 60 countries in the world that does not legalize queer marriage. Right now, it's like what? South America, no, not South America, South Africa, I believe Botswana, Yeah. Angola. But specifically, I know South Africa, right? Yeah. Those are the countries where you can get married or like you have more rights as a queer person. And also Kenya just passed, cha-cha. Small, small, small, small. But also Kenya just passed a bill protecting trans people, even though they're also going through anti- It's like, it's such a different, because there's people fighting. When I say this, like there's actively people fighting for better rights and better legislation for queer people, regardless of what country they're in and regardless of what you think about different African countries, there are queer people there. When I say radical imagination for queer motherland, we are imagining a world where queer African people can exist freely and openly and marry who they want and also still practice their culture. So being in, if you're Igbo, if you're in Kenya, if you're in Senegal, if you're Democratic Republic of Congo, if you're whatever country you are, you are still culturally who you are and also freely free to be queer. And that is a world where people cannot even imagine that right now. But I do. And there are millions and millions of other people who actively do and who are actively fighting for that world. And also Queer Motherland is not unique in what we're doing right now because there are hundreds. And when I say hundreds, I mean hundreds of queer African organizations on the ground in Africa doing good work in their respective fields, like in their respective geographies. And they're also connected to different people across the diaspora. There are people out there to help because people are not alone and because being queer is so adamantly human. And you know what Africans are? We are humans who deserve to be treated like human beings, who deserve to have the full capacity of human rights. And I just wish people knew that there is a better world out there and it might not happen in our generation. It might not happen in the next generation. It might be our kids' kids who experience this. But the gag is in the 1980s, no, in the 1990s, South Africa on October 13th had their first ever pride parade in Johannesburg. And you know what? Now they're booming because they're one of the biggest pride celebratories in the entire world. And it took a fuck ton amount of people for that to happen. But you know what? It did happen. And now things changed. And that took what? a couple generations, but then two generations later, they were like, Oh, of course, let's go to South Africa. Let's have a queer wedding in South Africa because it was normalized. It takes time, but the great thing is time will pass regardless. I love that. Time really would pass regardless because you are right. I feel sad when I hear like, oh, it might not be in our generation, but I also feel hope at the same time because you are right. Like, I can't imagine Harriet Tubman thinking Obama would exist like in any lifetime. like that was even the folks when obama got elected there were still folks in disbelief who were young looking like when i was in high school this was not never a possibility and there would be a day where america would be run by a woman there would be a day where you know nigeria would rise up and not have thieves at the helm of it there would be a day There'll be a day where queer Africans aren't even labeled as queer Africans. They're just labeled as Africans and they're able to exist the way they are. And when that day comes, I hope folks are looking at and listening to My Too Laugh the podcast with Olive and Sophie and being like, this is history, folks. They talked about it and they dreamt about it and it's now a reality. So I love that. I love that that is what safety for queer Africans looks like for you. I think for me, I think it's just... joy and I didn't realize this but they're very rare spaces of queer joy that I've noticed. Like I don't, I don't, I can count to maybe four or five fingers, how many joyful spaces I've been in where it was just queer Africans having a good time where they were still not looking behind their shoulders, where they're not trying to see if someone's phone was out, where they're not trying to see if someone was recording this or this was going to be happening. Or, you know, there's still such a level of fear in our lives when we move about the day. And I can't wait for just that moment in time where like we simply are allowed to feel joy in in our spaces, but also just everyday spaces like walking down the street. I remember I was telling an ex of mine, I was like, one of the dreams I have is. to go like to go out and hold your hand and like and it should be like I'm holding your hand and There's nothing about it. I'm just holding your hand and I couldn't I Still couldn't enjoy I love that you said radical imagination because I couldn't dream of that possibility like holding her hand in public Just wasn't a thing. Yeah, but now I'm like, you know what I can't dream of it If you might be older a lot older, but it could be the world we're broken up. So it doesn't matter and The point is... But I get the sentiment. I get it. You get the sentiment. But yeah, so on the topic of breakups, makeups, and love, you are in a relationship. How is that? How long have you guys been together? If you don't mind, if you don't want to share, you can cut it out, cut it out. Do you mind sharing? I can share. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Tell me about it. Like, you don't tell me too much. Just like how long have you been together? How is she? Tell me everything. She is so so cool. She's so smart. She's so nice. We have been together for about two years now. She's Puerto Rican She's lovely. We met on hinge I how did we end up getting in 11 days? Let me tell you. So I saw her profile. She gave me a rose I DM'd I matched with her I said hey you're hot. Let's go on a date and three days later We went on our first date Nine days after that, I asked her to be my girlfriend. Boom, boom, boom. And now we're here two years later. And y'all might be thinking, that is so fast. That is so quick. When you know, you know. Yeah. When you know, you know. Wait, is she your first ever relationship? Oh, she's like my fourth. Okay, okay. Because you know the story about how like... A lesbian's first relationship will put you through the ringer. That's what they say, that's what the girlies say, and I will attest to that. It did put me through the ringer. It did put me through the ringer. But then, everybody's relationship was in the ringer, especially if it's just a mismatched combo. But I love that. I love that you're in a happy relationship. And I love that your parents love her. And I wish you guys the best. That is so sweet. So do you think being African changes the way you date? Because you just talked about dating someone who's Puerto Rican. And fun fact, I've only ever dated black American. Okay, period. I've never dated a fully African person before. You know, I have dated a white woman, a black American stud, and now a Puerto Rican. Yeah. My first relationship was with a white boy. Let's not, let's not call him. Let's not discuss that. That was, let's put that to the side. Nobody needs to know about that. But, being African, it's just that a lot of people are just not out. The pool is small in itself. So, it's not that I would never date another African person, I'm not, because I'm in a beautiful relationship and I hope to marry this person. It's just that, I, there's not a lot of us who are out in the first place. So there is- How is it going on? Like how, like the thing is you can go to every, another, you can go to Houston, Texas, you can go to New York city, you can go to where another African place is, right? You can walk into that venue. There's probably 50% of them are queer. Who is going to tell you that? Who is going to speak up and be like, hey, I think you're cute. Oh, your parents about to disown you, babe. Oh my God. I did this sidebar again. That's actually like I've attempted to do that. And I realized if anything, I was putting the person in danger by doing that in the first place. And I don't think I never because I never conceptualize that like I knew it. But I think I also take for granted that I'm femme and I'm very feminine presenting. Yeah. I'm also very much, I can play both sides and it's the duality of like, I've been with guys and also with women and people just, I'm fluid in my looks essentially. And I can, I'm protected by that privilege in a sense, but there's certain folks who aren't right in some ways, even if they just, they might be femme, but like they dress alternatively. People are like, there's something different about you. It's the queer. Yeah, it's the queer. And I'm just like regular degular in the way. So I definitely can see that. So I didn't realize that until later on. And it's something that I've been very conscious about now moving forward for sure. Yeah. And I specifically date mass people, mass presenting people. So, and I date only out people. Because I'm a very out person. Like, I will be holding your hand in public. I'm a very much... public person so that already gets off more than 99 of the african community who are queer yeah for sure that's true that is true i feel that okay um let me see i have like a few more we kind of already answered that what are some green flags when you're dating someone for you smart I love a smart person. I love a smart person. Like my girlfriend, she has two degrees and she's always like researching something new. She's like a research scientist. She's super smart. I don't know. I was not a science person. I didn't go in the medical field. I was not doing that. I'm a writer. Yay. Give me an essay. Give me a write. Give me a research paper. Give me something to yap about. Give me a debate. Ooh, you see me there. Science? It's not my theme. Statistics, please. And that's okay. I'm a math girl. I'm not touching a science topic. I'm not doing that. But she's really smart. And that's how, like, the connection between my parents and her get along. Because my parents are both doctors. My girlfriend works in the medical field. So that was a really good hook for them. They talk about medicine all the time. And I'm just there. La, la, la, la. So that's a green flag of mine. Like, you have to be very smart and very caring as well. I like very kind, nice people. And I can see red flags immediately. Like, my past relationships did not last over three months because I caught it like that. I'm like, ah, get out. I'm like, I'm someone who breaks up with people very fast. It is what it is. Really? Yes. OK, OK, OK, wait. That's also like, what are some red flags then? What are some things that have made you be like, OK, out the door? Out the door lies. if you lied to me like even if i'm some stupid shit too mine is omission no i've been lying like i hate people that omit stuff like because i feel like omitting in some way like i don't know i know this is being dramatic and of course it's not really but if you omit something it's even on the same level as lying because you know you you practically lied about the thing you're omitting like and you don't tell me three four years later something that you should have told me from the beginning get out out the door No, yes, they are lying to your face and they found you disgusting. Like literally, I am so dramatic. Like I am dramatic, but it's real. You want me to die. That's what it is. You stab me in the heart. Throw me away. You lied to me about X, Y, Z. You want me to die. That's real. That's real as fuck. Yes. Red flag, lying. very like emotionally irregular and people who can't handle themselves do who can't handle themselves you need to find some type of community some type of way to handle your emotions because we're all grown now i'm not gonna be your therapist i was i did not sign up for that i signed up to be someone who loves you and protects you i did not sign up to be your therapist go get therapy because i'm a person who like buys my community If like I always think about when I have a child or when I have my own like home, home for real, I'm getting a living made. I'm getting a private chef. I'm getting a living. Like I'm buying my community. I don't give a damn about nothing else. So when I meet somebody, I'm like, you do not have your shit together. Take time for yourself. Don't talk to me. You know, I went through a situation where, like, I think people sometimes forget that it's okay to actually take care of yourself. Like, if you're not, you don't always have to be a different relationship. We don't have to build together sometimes. Like, sometimes take the time, like, if we really love each other, we'll find each other again. If it was really necessary, we'll find each other. Because you can't pour from the empty cup. And if the cup is constantly empty and you are like, let's go, and the person can't do anything, you're just in a terrible cycle. And that's where the emotional manipulation comes in, emotional irregularities, having all these big fights. And I see that a lot in younger relationships where people across the board, heterosexual relationships too, where... people just don't know how to regulate their own emotions because they don't know where they're getting the abilities from. Like a lot of young people are still figuring out who they are. Right. And if you don't have someone who's already on that same path as you, you're just, it's two tornadoes waiting to happen versus someone who I love when you're talking about your girlfriend, you're talking about how both of you have pretty similar thinking. Like she's doing her thing. You're doing your thing. And when you come together, you're creating magic. I think that's what's special. And that's why, that's what you like, That's when the special love comes in. You know what I mean? You hear people tell stories, you're like, yeah, they were made to find each other. And those stories are not few and far in between. But you know, you know, it's not everyone that has that because not a lot of people have their shit together. So I applaud you for living your life and finding something special. Okay. So we're going to answer a few questions. I don't want you to take too much of your time. Oh, yeah. um so we had the pod fam well i privately reached out to a few people um and just asked a couple of questions because i i was supposed to try to be safe so these are i have a five or six we'll see how many we can answer one basically just of this question is how do i support gay people like um as somebody who is an ally in the sense how do i support someone who tells me they're queer the person, long story short, the person who reached out to me and had told me that their best friend came out to them as queer and they didn't know how to, and this is a guy, and he didn't know how to, like, well, gay, and he didn't know how to help or support, but also not feeling like he was gay too, and so he was like, how do I support someone like that without, you know, sending the wrong message, essentially. Just be a friend and listen to them? Yeah, that's what I, yeah. Like, I think maybe you're just overthinking it, because also the type of media people have been shown, it's like, oh, you have gay friends, that means you must be gay. Or, like, the very misogynistic and patriarchal world this person might live in, especially with men, it is, like, I've seen it play out so many times. Like, oh, I don't want to be friends with this guy because he's gay, and I don't want people to think I'm gay. Blase, blase. It's like, how about you just be a friend and listen to your friend? Yeah. Like, what you've been doing? Don't treat him any differently. Be like, okay, yeah. Do you have any crushes? I mean, do you have a guy crush? Okay, just like the way you ask your guys, do you have a girl crush or something? Like, just be a friend, babe. You've been doing this for long enough. Just be a friend. Yeah, just be a friend. And... yeah that's true i think for me so i messaged him on the side but what i did tell them was be a friend and let listen to them and actually ask them what what their needs are because for someone to trust you with that sort of like advice essentially your friend is coming out to you that means they at least in somewhere were seeking support seeking understanding and they're not Seeking whatever it that could be and you should if you are interested in being their friend You should be a good friend to them and provide those things whatever that case may be and also it's just always good to ask I love asking my friends gay or not gay What how can I be a good friend to them because yeah, I feel like it should be a human thing Somebody how how to take care of them. So I think I told him that so okay another question is I am Christian and I just can't support gay people. And Sophie, you keep talking about being gay. Can you not talk about it? I still want to support you, but it is hard. I am Christian and I can't get behind supporting gay people. then you're not Christian. I fear, I fear, I fear. One of the main things is love thy neighbor, my mama. My mama is one of the main things is love thy neighbor. And now you're bullshitting me. You're lying to my face at this point. And that's what a religious group, like, oh, I'm this religion. I remember seeing a video the other day of somebody saying, I can't be a feminist because I'm Christian. And I'm like, we are in the end times. You are actually pissing me off completely, right? I'm a Christian, that means I can't support gay people. Okay, so propaganda. There's a movie called 1946, where they tell us about the evolution of how the Bible has been changed to discriminate against gay people, right? Putting certain things into the Bible and mistranslating things. That's how it starts. Things of that nature where people are like, oh, well, let's put it. Let's redo the verses. Let's redo the translations. And let's discriminate against this group. Let's discriminate against this group. Because 100 years ago, people were actually not even 100 years ago. Now, people were saying, oh, I'm Christian. I can't support interracial marriage. What are we talking about? What are we talking about? You guys are using the religion to harm other people because you don't know what the religion is. You are, mind you, Jesus was out here supporting prostitutes. He was out here supporting the disabled. He was out here supporting everybody up, down, left, right. But you're out here. He died for everyone's sins. And he died for everyone's sins, not just your sin. He didn't just say, oh, I'm only dying for white people's sins. He died for every single person's sins. If you're queer, if you're a murderer, if you're everything, he died for our sins. Yes. And to say I'm a Christian and I can't get behind loving gay people, How about we do some internal work? Yeah. We go internal and be like, so what is really up with you and your mind and your soul? And you need to figure out that fuck out. You need to figure out the fuck out. You need to go outside a little bit more. How about meet some gay people, go to a gay bar, start talking to people, be like, hey, what was your experiences? We're just like you. We're just like you. I'm just like me. Like we're just the same human being. Flesh and bone, my lover. Flesh and bone. And also on the side of like, and Sophie, why do you keep talking about it? I think. It's just my life. This is just my life. I'm going to keep talking about it. If you don't want to hear it, just you can scroll and not comment or not say anything about it. It's the same way that it's the same way that like Alex Cooper talks about her, the, her escapades as a normal straight person is the same way. Madam Joyce and cocktails and takeaway talks about her relationship will be the same way I and all of it will talk about our relationship. It's not, it's not me talking about anything. I'm just literally just, just seeing you about my life. So if you don't like it, you can keep scrolling. Okay. Also with that, with a lot of people, like, you know how people say, oh, the gay people push their sexuality onto everybody, right? Especially kids. My girlfriend were chatting last night and it's just this bullshit. Like y'all are bullshitting me. You're bullshitting me. Cause let's really, let's think about how gender is enforced in the society. Right? Let's think about it. Before, before, what's the main thing people ask you when you say, oh my God, I'm pregnant. They say, oh, what's the gender of the baby? What's the gender of the baby? What's the gender of a fucking baby? Who gives a damn? Is the baby healthy? Is the baby coming out alive? Are you good? Are you good? Didn't care about that. No, but we have baby showers, we're like, oh, is it pink or blue? Oh, gender-based. Even having like baby clothes. Mind you, baby clothes. Oh, two-week-old little boy could have a baby outfit on saying, oh, he's a lady killer. He's gonna steal so many hearts. He's gonna be a king in the future. What are we actually talking about? You're forcing sexuality on a baby when you say, oh, he's going to be a lady killer. He's going to steal so many girls' hearts. Or when you have a little girl and her little, mind you, a two-week-old baby just got out the womb. Don't even know what the hell is going on. You're saying, oh, she's going to get so many boys when she's older. That's disgusting. Look at her lashes. Look at her clothes. Look at her hair. Mind you, she's two weeks old! Parents shipping already, oh boy and girl, they're gonna be together together, I can imagine this already. They're kids. Are you disgusting? Are you actually, like, no, people are actually disgusting. People are genuinely fucking gross. Especially when it comes to gender sexuality. pushing it and mind you be like oh we have books for gay kids like the gay bc is that book right in barstowels or little libraries and people saying oh it's just doing too much to the kids you guys have shipping children together you guys and the there's a don't have cinderella getting kidnapped or gets being beaten and bullied by her sisters and a man coming to save cinderella you have somebody sleeping in the house with dwarves and having to eat an apple because she was murdered by her. Dude, the things the kids are already reading are not normal. They're like, I'm telling you, knowing that mommy and mommy and mommy kiss or daddy and daddy kiss is the least of your worries. Or knowing to respect people for who they are and for who they love is the least of our problems in the society. end of story like because at the end of the day a lot of people would choose oh yeah i think that man should be with that woman even though that man beats that woman 24 7 but a woman and a woman adopting a perfectly healthy child oh blasphemy that's a problem kill them off no terrible you guys are not christians you're bullshitting yourself yeah yeah facts um My parents say they love me, but they'll never accept this part of me. That's pretty much the question. Is that really love? What do I do about it? I think this is one of the biggest questions I always get as an African person who just talks about being open. And I always tell them that selfishly, your parents have lived their lives. It's your turn to live yours. And a lot of the time, the driving force behind you, at least for I can speak from personal experience the law of the driving force behind my mom's frustrations with me and my choices is one she says that she's scared I'm going to go to hell because her teachers have said that this is not good and I'm telling her I said the God that you serve will never send me to hell I just want you to know that like I do you pray for me to not go to hell I prefer me to not go to hell we're both not going to hell that's one and if I'm gonna go to hell I promise you them because I'm gay there will be there's several other reasons yeah it's gonna be something else it's not gonna be the one i guess not that is not the reason and i think second thing is what will people say and usually the third thing is like marriage and kids and everything and but most of the time i think 60 to 70 percent of the time is what will people say i think that's usually the crutch of the african society is it's shame is oh this is not the norm you need to follow the norm you are not a We're not sheeps. We're all human beings with our singular experiences. At some point, you need to make the decision to live your life for you. And it is so hard. I speak from such a place of privilege right now in saying that the only reason I'm able to just speak this candidly is the fact that I pay my own bills. I live in my own house now, but I'm going to live in my own house. I'm educated. I have my own money. I simply live my life for me. there's a lot of people who come from bigger families who have siblings to lose who have families to lose and i understand the risk and why they oftentimes feel dragged down by it and i always tell them that i said they're off to live their lives while you're sitting now in your room crying your eyes out sad heartbroken some of them are already married with their wives and kids living their best life They're living their life. They're happy. They go lucky. They might judge you, but they're still living their own life. So the best thing you can do for yourself is live life for you and work hard and strive hard to live your own life. Because you will be happier at the end of the day. Yeah. No, like preach, preach, preach, preach, preach. And with the shame of Africans, what I was saying earlier with... A lot of African parents, they choose a culture over their children. And at the end of the day, my true candid, I thought when I hear that is the white man already shamed you for five centuries. Are you going to shame yourself now? Yes. They've passed the baton. Yes, they are. They passed the baton. They say, here you go. It's your turn. We've done enough. Sadly. Are you going to keep on going with a colonized mind? Or are you going to free yourself from the shackles? But you were right. Like these people have lived 50 plus years in a certain mindset. And this mindset has kept them alive this long. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it really is coming from a place of love. Like I just want to keep you safe. I want to keep you alive. And I know what queer people have experienced in their own lives when they've seen it. And I don't want you to experience that as well. That is a point. Like that's something I've literally heard from different people as well. I'm like, okay. But in this day and age, you need to fight for something. If you fight it, if you, I don't know if you're a Hamilton fan, but there's a song called, I love Hamilton. I love Hamilton. Ah, Room Where It Happens, right? And Alexander Hamilton is telling Aaron Burr, if you stand for nothing, Burr, what will you fall for? If you don't stand up for your children, if you don't stand up for the people you've literally birthed, if you don't stand up for them, what will you fall for? You're gonna fall for everything. You're gonna fall for literally everything. You got no backbone. I got to stand up for you to like children go, go above culture. I fear go above culture all the time. I'm going to steal this, this culture versus culture versus what did you say? Culture versus versus what? Children, children, children. There we go. Children. I was like, I don't think it's culture versus culture. I was like, that's not right. Culture versus children. I'm going to say that. I'm going to send that to my mom. every time I do a podcast I just send it to her I'm like listen yes okay last question I think we've kind of sort of answered this but we skimmed it a little bit which is I'm dating someone who's not out and it's starting to hurt me am I wrong for wanting more essentially I summarized the whole thing but the tea in the DMs for this person was basically that they've been with this person for about two and a half three years and the person isn't out yet And they just didn't because they're African. Both of them are African. And they weren't sure if the person was ever going to be out. And so they didn't know how that like what to do. And my response to that was first, is the person not being out affecting your relationship? Meaning, is it like. they're actively hiding who you are from their family, from their loved ones people. Are they actively hiding themselves? Or, cause I know there are people who are like pretty private and they're like, I just don't want to share with the world that this is who I'm sleeping with. There are men who don't share their relationship, there are women who don't share their relationships. So that happens. but um and so they said the person is actively hiding um from their family but they're also like not hiding them does that make sense and so i was just like well if this is something that you're not interested in i think you should walk away but if it's something that you understand the you understand the risk of what they're going through then you should like it be accepting of it but i also was like i'll get back to you on the podcast so shameless plug here um for that's so interesting because my ex actually not my ex what my girlfriend experiences with her ex because her ex is nigerian and the ex had no intention of ever coming out like at all at all so they had to break up because of that and wait how was they ever going to be together Okay, I get it. Right, right, right. Like, the crickets, the crickets. I hear crickets. I hear crickets. That's, like, what my girlfriend was telling me. Like, yeah, that was also her first relationship. Her girlfriend, my girlfriend and her ex, that was both their first relationship, I believe, from both sides. Yeah. My girlfriend's side. And she said, yeah, I was just not going to do that to myself. I'm fully... She became fully out during that relationship, but there's no way she's gonna fully hide herself all the time. Like, this is just destroying her and the relationship itself. And also the ex wasn't that good of a person. But now being with somebody, that's why when she met me, also being Nigerian, she was a cult. It was a really shock because I was such an out person. PDA was my whole thing. Holding hands was great and everything. I loved hugging her, da-da-da-da. And we're a very visibly lesbian couple. Like, I'm very femme. She's very masked. You see it. Oh, gay couple, right? and it really helped to increase our relationship because it's very draining to be in the closet but it's also societal pressure like it's not you it's not a personal thing but it's what can you what can you keep on going with again i've never dated a non-out person i am such an out person that no i don't think any non-out person would be like oh yeah let me ask olive out like that it makes no sense in what i am and i just don't attract that But in their specific situation, two and a half years, Hey, you better than me. Yeah. I've never experienced that. Like you generally better than me because it rain or shine. That would never happen to me. And I just don't I just have never experienced that because I've never dated a non out person. Yeah, no, I feel that I think for me, I said I will. I've only ever dated black Americans. And so I'm also the time like their families are really cool with who you are. So I think that's like it's nothing to do. No. And you know, the funniest thing is I think I deal with. people just assuming people who I hang out with are queer. and then I'm dating every single person I'm with or like I'm talking to or flirting with or friends with, which is not usually the case. But I think relationships, no matter what, gay or not gay, it's all about what you are willing to handle in that relationship or what you see the future is. So if you're in a relationship with someone and you're realizing that, hey, I don't think this is going to go past what it is now. If that is not the reality you want for yourself, the door. It's gonna hurt less now than it would hurt more in the future. I don't think I said that right, but that's the point. Like, yeah, it's compounding pain. Like imagine you knowing what you know now and knowing that in three years, you're going to build more of a life together, have more memories together, and then have to still do the exact same thing you should have done this year. So I think like that to me is where my perspective would land. if you're the kind of person who, I know people who are like, we're gonna be in the closet together forever They're active, I know a lot of couples, yeah, I know a lot, especially a lot of African couples, like I know folks who are best friends who live together who've been best friends for 25 years and they're queer lesbians who just, that's what they can do, we're best friends in the entire world, but they're visibly queer But that's sort of like what they have to do. And it's like a mutual thing. So I wouldn't say go, if you're someone who's out, go be with someone who's out. Cause I don't, I don't think love works that way. But in, it's all about also choice in a relationship. If you're choosing to exist, you can't force someone to come out at the same time. Because again, it's such a complex dynamic of social, social problems, issues, family, religion, so much. of that that you have to battle that and it's not your fight it's really not your fight you can't convince somebody someone can come out for you you always wanted to be their journey too so yeah i think that's my piece of advice i love that uh i love this was such a great conversation i am so glad you came to join me on my tool out the podcast with sophie aka the mother freaking oddity um do you have anything to plug before we close out the pod Yes, I want you guys to follow Queermouthland on Instagram, LinkedIn, and TikTok and support us, whether it be through our GoFundMe or liking our posts and sharing our posts because we do focus a lot on education. I believe education is the way to go every single time. We don't focus on education. We don't really focus on anything else other than education, community, and advocacy because those are our three pillars. And just read more about queer Africans and queer African bills, legislation going on right now, because it's really important to know what you're talking about when you're fighting for human rights. You never want to be the voice. But you never want to be the voice for marginalized people and also be wrong at the same time. That's a very bad mix of things to happen. And give people grace as well when it comes to their journey. And whether it be queer Africans, queer Muslims, queer Christians, whatever their marginalized nation group is. Because people go through different lives and different societies exist. And just because you have freedoms now does not mean you will have freedoms tomorrow. So keep on fighting for all people. Yes. Thanks, Olive. No, it was a really great conversation to have. And I'll probably, like, get your number because I feel like we should be friends. If I'm ever in Dallas, I'll text you. I'll text you. I'll be in New York City this weekend. Oh, no. I'm leaving my birthday, so I'm going on a birthday trip. I know. And I'm not going to be back for a minute. Your girl's ready to go out of here. No, ask your shit. No, get it. Yes. No, like. let's go but yeah no I want more queer friends I think I saw TikTok about that so I'll be hitting you up that was such a good episode and sometimes when I do episodes like that I'm like am I too loud oh my god am I too loud am I too loud am I too loud I am too fucking loud like it just feels like If you don't have any queer friends, then I feel like this would give an insight into like queer conversation. If you're not a weirdo, then they should just feel normal to you. And if you're listening to my episode and you feel like an ick or you felt uncomfortable, sit in that discomfort because we're just two human beings. We're just talking about their lives and we exist and we're real and we're really nice people. And queer people are normal and everyone's normal and life is great. And I just sometimes I get really nervous about posting stuff that isn't the norm, especially being from where I am from. But I am reminded that even if there's one person that listens to this and feels inspired, then my job here is done. And in the history books, they will say that I might feel out the podcast with Sophie, aka the motherfucking oddity, helped. I don't know what it helps, but helped. All right. I love you guys. I'll talk to you in the next episode. There might be a loud report coming out because Love Island and Casa Amor has been going crazy. We'll talk soon. I love you. Bye, guys.