Mummy… LET’S TALK ABOUT SEX AS BLACK MUSLIM WOMEN | Crossover Episode: AITL X OOT | Part 1

We're talking about sex, baby. We're talking about you and we're not me and her, but you get the point. I want to talk about the things that we don't talk about, but take it a step further. Yeah. I thought Blue Balls was like, a man is about to die. I have hit rock bottom, like guys, the me and the devil are dancing the sides up. Your virginity is the best thing that you could ever give your husband. Trigger warning, FGM. The following content contains strong language and explicit discussions around sex and sexual violence. Viewers discretion is strongly advised. This is our crossover episode. Yay! Applause! Applause! OK, so if you're listening to this, we're probably going to have the episode be on our YouTube channels as a crossover, but then you can listen to it on it's mostly Spotify and on a my to lost Spotify. Well, this is my first crossover episode. Is this your first two? Ever. Oh, wow. I've never collabed with any other podcasts. You're my first two. Really? Oh, my God. And there could be lots of crossovers. Presidents. You see that? I love that. It's very pun intended. It is. Very pun intended. Oh, guys, we're so nervous about this episode. I think you're nervous. I'm nervous. What? I feel like now I'm nervous. OK. First of all, we... I... It's mostly did everything. She's such an eye-concerted star. I'm learning so much from her. You're looking for me. Yes. Because you planned this entire thing. And you reached out. You're like the pioneer. And she set up this entire space. If you know, I'm too loud. We've been doing it. And my friends, like, little apartment stuff. So I've been very, like, toned down with the podcast. And I had no expectations for today, except, like, I just know she could handle it. You know what? You just meet a woman who just knows her. You don't... I was in my feminine energy, this entire planning segment. I just... I enjoyed just being the babe. And I walked into the... Today, and I saw green all over. And I was just so happy. So shout out to the sponsor for being a gem. Because this is great. When I tell you, I... Guys, I called emailed Sophie last year. And I was like... She's probably never going to respond to me. But, like, you missed 100% of the shots. You don't take... Facts. And I literally was like, I'm just going to email... I literally found every email that she has on the internet. I found every email. I'm psychotic. I see-seed all of them. And I was just like, I want you to be on this podcast. I like, pitched her over email. And she literally, surprisingly... It wasn't even... It was like within the week. Yeah. She was just like, hey, totally down. I'm just in Nigeria right now. But we could totally do this when I get back. And I was like, oh, shit! Yeah. And I was like, I'm onto something. And then we finally had dinner. It was incredible. So good. And then we made it happen, finally. And this is also on our terms first time in this space. Really? And this is a new chapter for us. No, this is a new chapter, like for real. Like this is iconic. This is a new chapter. And I'm so happy that we're here. I think we needed to take a step out of... While we are so grateful for our old space and it was iconic, it was where everything happened, where all the conversation started, where I finally got the audacity to do this. We're on to bigger and better. That's what this space symbolizes. Yes, this is a really nice space. Like what? If you're like walking around on the campus, I was like, oh my God, this is really nice. I mean, it's a creator campus. It is. I feel like we'll get into that later on, maybe. But being a creator, like, finding spaces now that are dedicated to creators, for me, is insane. Like, we used to like struggle to be respected as creators and now, like, their actual space is dedicated to our jobs. It's an economy. A billion dollar economy. Yeah. I mean, absurd. And you know, it's getting serious because I think McKinsey has like a head of like creator strategy or something like that. No, it's like dedicated to, which is really serious, is that means like companies are asking for that or asking how they can use creators to drive their brand strategy or to define their brand. So that's a big win for the girls. I mean, it's a multi-billion dollar industry and anyone who's not paying attention to it is. They're sleeping on something special. Exactly. They really are. Exactly. Now. Tapping guys. Watch your face. Okay. So what are we talking about today? What are we talking about today? We're talking about sex, baby. We're talking about you. And we're not me and her, but you get the point. We're talking about all the good things, all the bad things that may be. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about sex. Ah, guys. I always talk about sex. I was like, you know, you know, when I first started, when I first started on a terms, I remember I was talking to my best friend, Calibra, about this. And I was like, he was like, do you think you ever have an episode on sex? And I was just like, no, only when I've like blown up and like, I'm rich. Really? You know, I, you know, the stakes aren't that high anymore. Like, who cares? Like, my parents are not going to care because I'm rich now. You know how that kind of thing is all the problem? They can't stress the breadwinner. Like, they don't stress the breadwinner. Like, if you're the breadwinner in your family, you don't get stressed. Like, they don't, they don't, they don't even check you. Like, you could do whatever you was on a zero-per-winner. You know, you're liberated. You bought your breadwinner now. You actually bought your freedom. Every African child that is successful bought their freedom. I'm telling y'all, that's, that was the secret for me being who I was. I just bought my fucking freedom. I was like, you're not paying my tuition. You're not paying for my accommodation. I have a whole job. Like, besides loving you and caring about you, why would I be listening to you? And the story. And they honestly stop caring once the direct deposit is hitting consistently. They do. Oh, that direct deposit. I don't, that's a shame. I haven't beached that point yet. But honestly, I was like, I don't get to do this. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do this. And I am financially free. Exactly. Period. But I also feel like just to clarify for why I, because are you honestly, first of all, I was talking to a friend the other day. And I was ranting about like my career trajectory and all that stuff. And they were like, you know, like, if you want to work with certain brands, like maybe like, you shouldn't talk about sex all the time. Because maybe the brands I would reach out to, you're a condom brands and dead of that. And I was like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. First of all, I would never work with a condom brand or a sex toy brand. No offense to any creator who does that. If you see me working with a sex toy brand or a condom brand. You know, I have hit rock bottom. Like guys. I'm me and Devwa dancing inside. I'm telling you right now. If you ever see me do that shit, just know that's why. But I remember telling them, I was like, see, that's my issue with why I always want to talk about sex. And I wanted to be the norm. Because within our society, because we've made it such a taboo topic, young girls don't know better. Young boys don't know better. People don't know better. Like people don't know, understand what consent is. They don't understand what sexes were orgasming in. They can't recognize it. They think they're giving their body away to something. They think they're taking their body away to think they're like there's so much misinformation around sexual needs and wants and desires that if you don't talk about to make it just, it's just that thing. It's always going to be a problem. So many horrible things in this world hide in the shadows of like. High-tech files. High-tech files. Yeah. You know? So many nasty things get to live in the darkness because this is taboo. And as a society, we don't talk about these things. And it makes you think, at least for me when I started this podcast, I was like, you know what? Like I want to talk about the things that we don't talk about, but take it a step further. Yeah. Because if not us, then who? Because clearly, clearly no one's going to do it. It's always up to the black woman. You know what? Literally all the time. I think that like, even for me to thinking about how much I have grown and the kind of questions I always wanted to ask, I just never understood why young women, the conversation around sex was so taboo for us, but it wasn't the same for men. Wait, we didn't even introduce the topic, did we? Um, so we kind of maybe not really. We just jumped. We just sang this song. Okay guys, well, well, doing the introduce it. And then I would introduce for me. So Dave, we're going to be talking about navigating sex as black Muslim women. Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to, it's going to be a lot. It might actually have to end up being a two-part series because we have a lot to go through. We have a lot of topics to hit. We're going to talk about it. Ah. If you ever wanted an intro to sex 101, this is it. I'm telling you right now. And I also think if you're not a Muslim woman, I don't think you should necessarily bow out of this conversation because you're like, oh, this isn't for me. I think where I, maybe I'll speak personally, I wanted to introduce being a black Muslim woman because you should understand the bravery that it takes for both of us to be sitting in this room right now and wanting to have this conversation around this topic. We do not have conversations around this topic. I've never spoken to my mother about sex. Like, Eva. None of my aunties. We don't speak about it. In fact, you know what I'm like? You see Bridgerton where they're trying to talk about the pinnacle. I don't know if you're watching this. Yeah, I don't know if you're watching this. I have. Like I talk about the pinnacle. That's kind of sort of how I grew up understanding sex. Like, it was in terms like your flower. It was like, make sure this is- They would have some weird- The weird analogy- And I never understood it. But then you have men just going about life knowing every single thing that they had to know about it. So for me, I wanted us to have this conversation because if you're a young girl who's curious, if you're someone who's sexually active, or your parents don't know, if you're someone who's already sexually active, then your parents know. If you're someone who just wants to understand what these feelings are, this episode will be for you. And I want you to take it from two people who are asking questions because they were scared to ask them before. But now they sort of have no choice and they're growing with that. You did that perfectly. Thanks. That was perfect. Yes. I wish I had something like this. When I had feelings or didn't understand what sex was, there was no content that I felt like could relate to me as a black Muslim girl, who, you know, I knew this was something I shouldn't even be thinking about or engaging with. I couldn't ignore the feelings that I was curious about this thing and I don't know about you, but I was just type of girl like, I want to find out. Yeah. Like, I'm going to find out. And that's the scary part. It's like, when you're finding out, be hope, you're finding out under safe methods, you know, under safe, but most of the time, you're not. And I think that's why this is important too. Exactly. It's getting to it. It's getting to it. Yeah. Okay. When did you first realize sex was a forbidden topic? Really early on. Mm-hmm. Like, I think probably my brain even formed. Yeah. I was like, oh, I shouldn't say this. I shouldn't say this. I shouldn't be thinking about this. Think about like how young they already start conditioning you. Like, oh, go put on a long dress. Your uncle's comfortable. Wait, I don't think my audience would know where you from. Like, what country and stuff. So, my family's from Guinea and are, you know, I'm Philani. And I didn't know that. I think I did. Did I know that? I tried to introduce myself as just guinea. I tried to, like, stray away from the tribalism of it all. Yeah. And it's been like, I'm from Guinea. Were you united? Yeah. Yeah, I'm Philani. My family is Muslim. And I think at a really young age, I remember just little things where you hear your parents say, oh, your uncles are coming over or some man is coming to the house. Like, you need to change your outfit or you need to dress a little bit more conservative. So you start questioning like, well, why? Yeah. Why? Because, you know, this man could see you in this way. And that's inappropriate. Well, why? And, you know, if you start asking why and why? I remember, like, because I was a curious kid. And I was like, oh, I guess, so they don't want to do inappropriate things with me. Yeah. So, I think very young, I started realizing. And every time I would bring up anything near or questioning anything that my parents would ask of me, because I was a girl, there was so much pushback. There was so much resistance. And I was just like, oh, this doesn't feel like a good idea. Like this area, this realm, I didn't know what sex was. I didn't even know what the word was. But I was like, this realm, this dark realm doesn't feel like something, feel like anything I can approach. And so that's when I realized I was like, and then as I got older, I remember in middle schools, when I started really just being like, so what's an abortion? And can I do that? And my mom was like, no. And I was like, no. And I was like, well, why? And she was like, because that's her own. And I was just like, but what if this is, this is, this is, and she goes, no. Under no circumstances. And that's because you shouldn't be having sex. Like, you shouldn't even be near boys. Like, and I was like, oh, okay. And then I was just like, but I like boys and girls. What about you? Oh, I, so I'm Nigerian. And I come from a Muslim family as well. And I have a brother who's 10 years older than me. And I don't know, this is too much, my too much, never. I'm phonorotic.com. Okay, I don't know when. I don't know how I, I just remember I was young enough to like, know where my brother's phone was. And I knew that he would always have phone. Not me calling him out. But he would always have phonorotic.com on his phone in some capacity. What is phonorotic? It was a point. Oh. Yes. And this was, I think maybe I'm like, seven, eight. Because at this point, he's 17, 18, maybe even younger. Oh, wow. And so like, and of course, it wasn't anything sexual for me. It was just more of curiosity. It was like, why are there naked girls on your phone? Because he's a boy. Like, no one is really checking for that. And I also, my mom was the, she's the matriarch of the family. So we always had cousins around. So we had boys everywhere in the house. And we all didn't like sleep in the same rooms. But it was definitely like, you knew the boys were always curious about girls and sex and having those conversations. And there was no woman to tell us anything. Like, there was literally no conversation ever that was had. Like, I don't, if an auntie or a cousin who was older got pregnant, it was just the whispers of, look how terrible she is. Like, she got pregnant. Like, she's a terrible child. But it was never anything truly substantial besides that. And I am such a curious child that I would remember like wanting to ask my cousins question to my brother, but not knowing what to ask. And my mom and dad were in together too. So my mom was always busy with work. And when we did have time, so I'm going to be asked a question or two. It was the most uncomfortable I probably ever saw her. Like, because I don't think she knew how to guide me through that answer. All she would always, I think, would say is like, you know, you're with for marriage or you, you know, a boy will come soon. You know, your virginity is the one thing you can't lose. And but she never actually fully even told me that. I think after that question, like, we never spoke about virginity again. Like, it was maybe in passing. Why should you just be like, oh, I hope your flower is still okay. And I'll be like, what the fuck is that? And I'm like, oh, you mean like sex? But I also think about generationally. Think about how different it is. Like, the fact that we even have the cojones. Right. Ask the question. But for us to even ask them and be like, hey, so like, what about us? I think it was because of how old are you? 28. So I think it's because I'm also like, we're the internet generation. Right? Like, their generation, then if you're looking for porn, it was, you had to go out of your way. Go out of your way. Like, you had to stretch to go find it. Our generation was wearing like laptops were in the thing. People had phones. People were browsing. People were doing web searches now. So like, for us, we were getting the opportunities to see the world in a way we'd never seen it before. And I don't think our parents were equipped for that access in a way that maybe they didn't even think about. Like, because I remember like, even the idea of like going online, seeking those kind of conversations, like, it was already open there. Like, most of the, you know, when they have like, you're searching for something, but then like a bot or like, what is the virus? Yeah. And it was always going to be virus from porn sites. It was never a virus about like education. It was so crazy you bringing up the phonorodica thing. Because for me, it wasn't in New York City public schools. Somebody pulled it up in the computer class. We supposed to be typing. And people were, and I just remember being like, oh, my God, what is that? And then I remember, but like, I could never bring that up to my parents. What? They would think you were the worst child in the world. Oh, I'm pretty set back to Guinness. Yeah. Like, it's a wrap. It's a wrap for me, though. It's done. How did you start going from hiding it out to like wanting to start talking about? Maybe into friends. Like, did you ever get to a point where like, you were curious about sex? Like, who was the first person you spoke to about it? Obviously, my friends. Yeah. Yeah. Because when you're, you know, I went to boarding school. Me too. I went to a co-ed boarding school. Oh, same. Yeah. Here in America. In New England. Really? Oh, my God. How was that? In Zane. I can't imagine. In Zane. That's like a whole network. That's like a whole network. Have you ever done an episode of boarding school experience in America? I haven't actually. You should. Well, I kind of did. It was about like how black girls and black boys have such different experiences. And it was like, money, why do the black boys fit in more than me? That's a whole thing. That's a whole different thing. I cried. Oh, my God. It was dramatic. It was so dramatic. Never drama. And, you know, there was this thing in boarding school called Walkbacks. Okay. Where from like, seven to eight right before study hall, everybody gets walked back. After dinner? Yeah, after dinner from the jig. And it was after everybody like went into the nooks and crannies of the school. And people would go into classrooms. They would go to the golf course. They would go to the lacrosse field. People would be having sex in the woods. And I remember I would hear people saying like, oh my God, did you hear this person had sex with this person? Or this person got caught by school safety in the history classrooms? And I'd be like, the sex thing. You people are black. I'm not, I'm not doing this stuff. Because as a black girl in like a P.W.I. I just like paint a picture in my class of 200 people. There were like maybe three black girls. What? Yeah. So like, it was... Were you desirable though? Like in that sense? No, I wasn't. Oh, do you think that was a factor in like how you felt around sex then? Absolutely. Absolutely. Because black women were nothing on that campus. Like I would say that all the time. Like we were not seen. Like the black boys didn't want us. Obviously the white boys were not checking for us. And I had a boyfriend at a rival at my rival boarding school. And I like clung to that boy. And dating that boy was like so important. Because it symbolized... Like I don't know. For me it was like... Was it a boy? He was Puerto Rican. Okay, well, in between. Yeah. He was in between. But I remember I was so excited to have a boyfriend. And I was like, oh my God, somebody finds me attractive and cute. And it meant so much. I was like, oh my God, finally. I get someone who's going to walk me back. Because when you're in high school, you just want to fit in. You want someone who finds you attractive. And you don't want to be left out. You want to be a part of whatever. And at least for me, I was always a type of girl. I want to be at the middle of all the action. Coming from my middle school. I was that girl. So to go to boarding school and like all of a sudden I wasn't in the mix. I think that was a lot for me. Yeah, I couldn't imagine that. But I feel like that's where my rumblings of like... That's where like sex being like a concept that I saw my peers engaging in. Yeah. Became real to me. And it was like, oh, I can also engage in this too. And I want to engage in this. But wait, I can't engage in this because my parents that I couldn't. But why? Because I don't want to feel attractive, but like in order to feel attractive. And for some reason it felt like you had to engage in this thing. And so because I didn't really have anyone to talk to about it. I was kind of desiring to be like this sexual being. And desiring to like do things that I didn't even really know what that entails. You know, like obviously I knew you can get pregnant and like I watched team mom. Yeah. We all watched team mom. We all watched team mom. And I was just like, I can't get pregnant. Like that can happen. But I knew for a fact I was like, there's a conflict happening. Like there was something really just like I remember feeling really torn about it. And having a boyfriend was a big deal to me, but like I'd like never told my mom. What? Never told my mom she found out eventually. But I never ever shared with her that I had a boyfriend. And like mind you, like I used to go visit him at his boarding school. He used to come visit me at my boarding school. It was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. Like we were together for like three years. What? Three, three and a half years? That's insane. Yeah. Oh wow. I feel like that boarding school experience feels like a canon event too for us. Because like I went to boarding school, but I went to boarding school in Nigeria. And my experience was, I think I struggle mostly with unrequited love. But unless I was not in the mix, we really. I don't think most of us had sex in boarding school. I think ours was very strict. I mean, it was more of like the, oh, this person has a crush on you. Maybe you're going to kiss someone here and there. But I knew that like the senior. So if you're an SS, like if you're in like, I don't know what's that would be the equivalent of in America. But SS 2, SS 3 was like the final years before you graduated. So like maybe 12, 11, 10, like those years. That was where you mostly would hear people talking about maybe someone had sex. Or like someone was talking to this person or someone was like doing that. But I think my introduction into sex was honestly pretty late. Because it was when I went to law school in Nigeria. So you went to law school for like a year. And then, oh, you don't know the story about how the professor sexually assaulted me? I do. Yeah, but it was like in law school. Yeah. Because you know, like law school is like a, it's like a full first degree in Nigeria. It's not a second degree like it is in America. Yeah. So for me, it's so crazy because I went to a pretty religious comes university in Nigeria. And I'd never had sex or anything. And that was like very, very traumatizing for me and traumatic. But it was like my first time finally out of home in a way. And even then, there was just never conversation whether it was with my mom or friends or anything. Like, sex was still to us like the taboo. Like, we don't talk about it. We don't, like, we didn't understand what it was. Like, I generally did not know what sex was. I knew, I kind of knew that I was going to be so painful and so terrible. So if I was going to do it. Yeah. So if I was going to do it, it had to be when I was mentally ready. I remember like, I would always think of it as like, this was the world about a fight. Like, if I was going to lose my virginity, it had to be like, it had to be mentally prepared. And maybe I would take some pills for the pain. I was like, I was very, I'm like, I would be with guys who like, they would do the top thing. We're like, you'd wear your clothes and you just rub on each other and you're grinding on each other. Yeah, but it would never, it was never an opening. In boarding school? In boarding school and when I was in law school. Oh, wow. That was like, that was the most I would do. I wouldn't like the Mormons. Yes, it was genuinely like that. So it was never like, for me, the crossover between full on sexual activity, besides like the harassment and assault I went through was very much still. So that was, I think that's why that to me was so, it was so frustrating that I was taking for me. Because it was like, I've been going above the cloth for so long because I did not want this to happen to me. And then how dare you do this to me in that moment. So I think that was my first. And I had no one to tell. I didn't have family to tell. No, my auntie, no, my mom, no one. This is so ridiculous. But I didn't know that a woman had three holes. Like your asshole. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that, but I just thought you have your, your p-hole and your b-hole. And I will never forget there is this guy in middle school, Aaron. I don't, I'm forgetting his last name. Don't say it's last name. But anyways, this boy named Aaron, if he ever sees this. And he was just like, you have three holes. And I was like, what? What? I was like, why would you say that to me? No, I don't. And boys, because kids are so brazen. They're so rude too. And ridiculous. And he was just like, yeah, because women have three holes. And I remember being like, no, I don't. Like I pee and I like have my, like my b-hole. And I remember being so shaken by that. And I went home and I googled it. And I started crying because also I was like the teachers pet. And I was like, such a know it all. And I was like, no, I know. Like I know you're so wrong. But that, you talking about that kind of just reminded me how, how much I didn't know. Yeah, we didn't know. How much I didn't know. And so when I got to high school, how much of a shock it is. It was to see all these things. It's like kind of just like, it's so abrupt when like sex is introduced to you in a way that's not safe. That's not like nurturing. Yeah. You don't have the space to ask questions. You can't, like I said, you can't recognize things. And you do feel like it's because it's such an intimate thing too. Yeah. When you feel like it's been robbed. You've been robbed of it. Yeah. I think it's so, it kind of sent you down the spiral. It does. Okay, before we get deeper into the conversation now, I, what, let's first of all, I want to talk about definition of sex because I feel like it's important for anyone who's watching to know. So sex refers to any physical intimate's contact between people for sexual pleasure or gratification, generally involving the stimulation of genitalia, anus or other intimate body parts. Legally, it often includes intercourse, which is penetration, or a sexual contact, which is like fun-ling, touching, oral, genital contact. Sometimes, sometimes defined by consent is crazy. Okay. Google sometimes defined by consent. Sorry. I got you right now. Yeah, no, but I think they mean like, because if someone gets sexually assaulted and they're like, well, that's not sex or something. Okay. Okay. It's still sex. Okay. You know, someone didn't consent to it. Okay. I don't like that. I'm trying to like give it the benefit of the doubt. Okay. You know, the legal definition focuses on consent being a free involuntary agreement, where silence or lack of resistance is not consent. Okay. Yeah, this is why they add consensual sex. Yeah. Because of sex. It's not consent. It's not, yeah. I'm sorry. That's what it was tough. That felt tough. Did you feel that? I don't know. No, I know. It's fine. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God. I'm okay. I promise I'm okay. Oh my wow. I did not. Wow. I was just saying it. It really, you don't realize like when, when something. Oh, guys. It's deep. Shit. It's deep. I don't want to apologize for feeling the way I just felt, but I think it's crazy that I always tell people that you don't know how your trauma would always manifest in certain ways, until like something happens to trigger it and then you're like, holy smokes. I just reacted that way. Okay. Anyways, okay. So that's the definition. And for a woman, I think when I was growing up, I know when I finally sort of had an idea of it, it was mostly this thing of virginity as a huge part of it. I think we're going to get to that really soon because I think for a lot of Muslim women, it's really for a lot of women too. Sex is often locked behind this idea of virginity. The shame around it, the shame around just even curiosity is always behind this idea of modesty and consent and virginity and access and so much more. But silence versus shame, what are you thinking about that? Like feeling how you sort of like dealt with the shame around sex when you had your boyfriend, when you had friends, like if you were in boarding school and you saw other people having sex, did you ever feel ashamed of it? Did you feel like it was something you really wanted to do because they were doing it? Definitely. And I think that adds into like why you hide it or why you like if you have these desires, you don't talk about it. Like even in this interview, we're going to get to this at some point. Like you're definitely a lot more open than I am about talking about sex. Like you can insinuate whatever you want. But I feel power in the fact that I'm still connected to my extended family. And like I know how they would feel about me speaking about it. But I remember feeling like this is something that I'm going to have to keep to myself. Like I'm going to have to take this to my grave. People don't expect me to have sex and have children. Like no one's ever going to find out that I am interested in this thing or want to do this thing. Like I'm just going to keep this to myself. And I would say like also on top of that too, like it's taken me, I don't know if I've still dealt with that shame too. I was like a 28 year old woman. I'm about to be 28. Like I think it's something that I'm still working through. I've had so many realizations in my mid 20s about different relationships I've been in. Unsafe situations that I've been in that I reflected on. Not being able to recognize like sexual coercion by the, you know. And how five years after the fact I'm like, oh my god. Like that was crazy. Or being able to advocate for myself in certain settings because I didn't know that I could. Things like that I feel like all stems from like me being shameful about it. And this being like a dirty little secret that I kept for myself and it didn't share with anybody. And you know, if I had much more healthier conversations around sex and the conversations weren't just don't have sex. Like I feel like that was a sex shock. Like don't have sex. Don't do it. Don't think about it. Don't engage with it. Get married and then we can talk about sex. You're using code words to describe it with your husband. Like, so, you know, how does it happen? I mean, you know what I realized? I don't know if in, you speak your, you're about right. Yeah. In pull out, we don't have like a word for sex. Like they have like, like, you know, we'll say things like sleep with one another. Yeah, yeah. Or like do each other in. Yeah. Or like, but we don't have like an actual word for it. Yeah. Yeah. That's how my shame manifested. Yeah. And I think it just put me in like really unsafe. I would, I think it earlier on in my like, like my late teenage years, early 20s, it put me in unsafe situations. Yeah. I like that you brought up unsafe situations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that you brought up unsafe situations because I feel like that. My family was the, we didn't talk about it. I think we were so focused on the things that weren't happening. Mm-hmm. That like it just, it was, I don't think I, we never brought it up. Like, do you have a boyfriend, girlfriend? Like it was, we were assumed. We were assumed we were such good kids that nothing bad could possibly be happening. Yeah. It was kind of like the vibe. Same. It was like, it was no need to bring up anything about in the talk, a conversation. And the only time sex was, was brought up, it was if like maybe an uncle cheated on his wife. Mm-hmm. And that was around the shame around it. Like, oh, he couldn't hold himself back or it was the wife's fault for not taking care of her husband or satisfying him. Mm-hmm. That was the rhetoric or if like my brother had his girlfriend over and like, you know, my mom is like making sure like they're not having babies. So I'll hear like, I'll ease your conversation. Yeah. But there was never a full-on conversation around sex. And then the shame came in when if you were curious, you were seen as too fast. You were seen as like, how did you know that? Why are you asking that question? Who have you had sex with? Yeah. It was never met from a place of education. Yeah. And like, even naming the body parts, like saying these words or something like we just, you just never did. Like you just never asked me because if you're a Muslim, men and women are already separate enough. Like when you pray, you're separate. When you're hanging out, you're separate. Everybody's on their side. So it's very rarely a time where like you're all together. And the expectation too is like when you do end up getting married, like where do I gonna pick you on the husband? You guys who grew up together and then maybe he will teach you what you should know. Which is crazy to me because one of the men ever been able to teach you anything good. Anyway. Do you think our mothers or aunties wanted to have these conversations? And like just didn't or do you feel like they were complicit in the silence because that's what they went through? I give them grace because I always feel like they generally didn't have the resources. Like that's one thing I know for sure is like they did not have the resources. They were not able to understand how to deal about this topic. And I think from a cultural perspective, their generation was so deep in the culture and traditions compared to us. Like imagine I think we grew up like you're in New York, right? Like your family first generation. So your first generation like American here, right? So you grew up within America compared to them whose old lives they'd known was Guinea. Same thing with my mom like Nigeria, that's it. So like we grew up being able to be open to other parts of the world to be able to learn more. They weren't like they thought America was probably like the devil with the things I'm ready. That was coming out of America at that point. Like what do you mean same sex? What do you mean? What do you mean all these things you get? Like there was still such a closed mentality. So I definitely wish that they equipped young girls better. Like my mom pisses me off a lot because like I know she could have talked to me about it. Like she wasn't the UK. She went to the UK for her masters. She knew some shit. Like she could have. Like you could have sat me down and told me the name of the vagina. You could have told me about a pink. Like she could have done it. And maybe maybe there's also this idea that when you teach kids early, they might be curious they want to do it. But I really think the science. I really think science shows that when kids know, then it's not. Like it's not fun. Like I can imagine going into school and someone's telling me, oh my god, like you know, I'm going to have sex. But my mom was already told me what sex was. I already understand what it means. There's no alert with it because I now get it. Like you know it's so crazy. I have more of a. Like I want to do it less because I know. My friends who have the healthiest relationships with sex who also became sexually active at much later stages in their lives are. They, they were exposed to sex at the earliest age. They were like, oh yeah, my parents had the birds and bees talk. Like we talk about sex openly. We're very, I talked to my mother about my boyfriend. Like there's always varying levels of it, but they feel very comfortable. Yeah. Acknowledging sex is a normal thing. Sex is this sex is this thing that we engage with and you have to do it responsibly. And they have such not always obviously. But I find that my those friends always have the. Like the best relationship with sex and themselves and their body and understanding their choices. I think about it from like black men. Like black men learn about sex when they're black fathers, right? And black fathers are usually terrible because they've been the terrible partners anyways. Like just generally like most of the time like you're hearing the bad so yeah. You like that type. Huh? You could go get her. Like you know that's like love talking to their sons about sex when they're like. Like boys are like literally five or five or so which is like a little bit too much strange. And then you have them thinking of their mothers is like maternal figures. And then women as a means to an end. You know, I mean for the most part. Now this is not all but most. So even from that angle with young girls, we're not taught from anyone. No one's telling you how to. And if they're telling you to protect yourself, they're telling to protect yourself from the idea of. This is for a tendency that only this man is going to unlock and it's going to be this. Oh, but rather. I will never forget I was talking to. Oh no, it was this teacher. Her name is Miss Barker actually. She was subbing for a teacher and somehow we started talking about sex in the class. This was in middle school, seventh grade. And she was like, yeah, ladies don't understand. Your virginity is the best thing that you could ever give your husband. And she was just like, you don't want to be one of these fast little girls. Mind you, our middle school had a nursery in it because so many girls got pregnant. We were, our middle school was in like a high school. And a lot of the high school girls would get, you know, had babies. I don't mean to interrupt, but you know, it was crazy. As you just said what you said in my head, I'm thinking if I'm a young girl and you tell me that. And I have a boyfriend who I want to be my husband, I will give him my virginity immediately. Because I want him to know I want him to be my husband. If that's the best thing I could give him, then let me give it to him instead of waiting till when we're older. And a lot of girls did. Yeah. They were, the nursery was full, guys. Like it was a full nursery. A nursery school is crazy. It was crazy. And I remember being like, why are you telling us this? And the boys are sitting there like, I will say what radicalized me in terms of gender has everything to do with sex. Yeah. Like I just think about very early on hearing my parents say, because me and I have a brother who is 14 months younger than me. But so we're basically like Irish twins in a way. And the way that he was treated and the way that they would talk to him about sex, which really wasn't much. And the way they talked to me about sex was so different. And I caught that really quick and really early on. And I remember being like, well, why can he do it? Well, why can't, why is it okay for him to have sex before marriage? And I can't. And that enough was, I remember being like, well, no. Yeah. Because like, that's not fair. And I don't partake in anything that doesn't make sense to me. That kind of incited like rebellious behavior. Because I was just like, this doesn't make any sense. This isn't fair. And nobody wants to explain it to me. Nobody wants to, every time I bring it up, it's like I'm being gaslit. I'm being made to feel like I'm a psychopath. Yeah. Absolutely not. Yeah. I think from there, that's also very much so influenced like my view of like how I would partake in sex. Or what would sex would mean to me? Because I'll be like, you know what? I'm coming from the, I'm this like freedom justice warrior. And I'm fighting for my rights. And I'm making, I'm equalizing it out for myself. For women all around the world. Like I don't know for me and my little brain. Yeah. That's like what made sense. As we were talking, I was researching. So I wanted to bring up something around like virginity. Because that's a huge factor with shame especially. And we're both Muslim women. So I was like, you know what? If anyone's listened to this and a lot of times your introduction to sex is often from a religious standpoint. I was like, let me see what the religions actually have to say about sex. So Christianity says that honestly traditional Christianity says that sex belongs within the marriage. The Catholic church, chastity is the proper integration of sexual whatever in marriage essentially. And that sex between unmarried adults in commuter relationships is sometimes always acceptable in Christianity as a whole. From like the Bible itself, like that's what this says. Islam places a huge emphasis on chastity and sex outside primitive relationships. It's considered is generally categorized as Zina in Islamic law, which means that within marriage alone. Marriage should does the proper framework for sexual relations in Islam. In today's in, it's more nuanced a bit. The Torah does not straightforwardly ban premarital sex in a way, but it does ban adultery. And the traditional Jewish teaching still treats sex with the marriage as the ideal, holy or context. Hinduism is the least one. It contains strong praise around sexual restraints. So the idea is like keep like the sexual needs. Like if you have discipline around sex, then that's like the best way. And the emphasis is often less virginities at all costs and more. Your sexuality is should be governed by like the stage of life you're in, your social duty, very personal. Buddhism does not center around virginity as a special prize. It just basically says like just avoid sexual misconduct and celibacy is the norm. Like the idea is like morally focused on conduct and like attachments read on virginity as your identity. And yeah, that's pretty much it. So I think you look at it. I was thinking about that if we're talking to young girls or just whoever's listening to this around sex, what I wanted to understand when I was starting out was if this is this thing that brings pleasure to a lot of people, right? At what age should I start? Should I be starting? What is sex? And for me, when I was going from a Muslim background, it was oftentimes cultural norms that policed my behavior around sex. Yes. And a lot of ways religious norms too. But I was like, I never actually also googled. Like I never actually like checked. I've never actually said, what does Islam say? I just knew that I was supposed to wait till marriage because it's ideal. But I always, I'm always curious as to why, right? Because at the end of the day when we're talking about like being in middle school and being with boyfriends and having a girlfriend at that time, like, if I want to have sex then, should I not have sex because it's like the not really just thing to do? Or is it because I understand the repercussions of what sex could be in my life? So pregnancy and STDs and so on, if that makes sense. So just for your information, if you listen to this episode and you're like, hi, I wonder if I want to have sex or I want to talk to my kids about sex. Now, you know, what those teachings are. I think you're right in the sense that parents a lot of the times use like the consequences such as like you can get pregnant. And like, they'll tell you like it's against, it's against the religion, you can't do it. But there's never really that dove into it. And I think young Muslim girls, young girls in general should do research. You have the internet, you have access in ways that people before you didn't. And it's not like because we didn't. I just think my brain never even went there to like, I was never even empowered enough to take that step to do that. And I wonder if I did feel empowered in that way if I would have made different decisions. Right, because we also hear this like cultural stigma around boys would be boys versus, you know, girls, right? Because virginity is the biggest conversation for young women. Right, like that's if I don't I'm curious that if we didn't have this idea of virginity. Which is grounded in pedophilia. We haven't even we haven't even taken it to that. I haven't even taken it. But like if virginity wasn't in existence. I think Trevor Noah on his podcast does this thing like if I ruled the world, if I ruled the world and I banned all topics around virginity, virginity was not a thing. I wonder what's the conversation around sex would become. Because right now for young girls, the teaching from what I know is you don't want to lose your virginity to someone. Because it's this emotional attachment to it. Sex is a very emotional exchange of like, you know, essence and light and love. And then the third version of that is also like, you could get pregnant. And you can have a city you can fall sick and you could die. There's like, there's like a lot of conversations around that. But that's also the same conversation around alcohol. Yeah. Around drugs. Around reading too much. Sleeping too much. Anything depression. Yeah. Exactly. Like anything in the world has this idea that everything good if done too much ends up eventually being bad. Yeah. Right. So if you consider sex as being good, if it's done too much ends up being bad. But I think when you think about the boys will be boys versus girls are this like family and honor and they must be put together in this way they can lose their virginity. I think that's where they lose me. Because I wonder if the world and the perception around sex would be different. And I wonder what's that would even look like for sexual harassment and sexual assault. When boys are taught in the same way girls are taught about sex. And we sort of like level the plane field a bit. Maybe it's all problems. All problems in the world guys. We've figured it out. It's higher worth of us especially as consultants. Exactly. Pay us. Pay us. I just think about like also just like the people who are writing all these rules were like old men. Yeah. Old white, strange men. And all of these rules that are imposed on society is not even like a woman was nowhere near the formation. When they decided these were the rules of society like there was no women in zip code. So like I just think about it like women are just better like we haven't figured out we. I just don't think the fabric of society as we know it today would just be so different. Because if you think about also just like how sex is inextricably linked to politics and wealth money power. Hashtag Epstein files. I also like when I add that when you incorporate the idea of how much pleasure you get from sex especially like I think here's the thing. If I'm growing up right and a 13 14 year old boy is being taught they're like. Like you watch it on the news American pie where like you just they're you get this idea this image. This picture of like boys have to like masturbate 24 7 when they're 12 to 16 because their libido is growing and they can't hold themselves back. And they can't be disciplined and they just can't handle it in morning. What is the thing? So they already have all this knowledge poured into them. And for the girls there's no conversation at all except. Which is so sad to me is like your your period starts. And that symbolizes your journey into adults. You're a woman now. You need to watch it. And you need to watch it. So it becomes less of an exploration of who you are as a person. Like you're not taught about like PCOS and PMDD and you know your blood and taking care of yourself. You're taught hide. You're taught hide. Oh, you're a woman now don't let a dick come near you don't let it like. You make they make the experience for women young girls so scary when it shouldn't be. I also think about the girls who got their periods so early. Oh. Like 90. You know traumatic that is like for everybody around you's not looking into judging you like oh look at you now. You could potentially be fast and you could get pregnant. Yeah. And as a young girl listen to that growing up you're like okay I have to have to gear up. But then there's some some guy. You got a power reader. Fucking power reader. You got to close your legs. And then what's sad about that is what I've also seen is this is around the same time where you start liking boys or girls wherever you like. And then this outlet. There's no outlet. There's no there's no one to talk to about these new feelings you have because. You are guarding the secret your legs are supposed to be closer you mustn't open it but. The girl who opened her has got the guy you like so I need to open mine because I want the guy to do you know how fucking work that is. Yeah or you start like me like associating being desired or being seen as pretty with committing like you know doing these things. Yeah. I will say one thing about those men who got into that room and made all the rules of society one thing that they did get right. Oh let me know. Because I never know they they do know that sex is normal to a certain extent because you know men get to engage into normalcy around sex they get to talk about sex in this normal and engage with it. They were interested in controlling women's bodies. That's the thing about sex sex. I think the patriarchy is very well aware that sex is normal sex is human sex is. Do you see animals have sex? I know like damn it. No and like think about all the rules around sex it's men can engage with it normally and like you know experience it experience the pleasures of it it's women. No you you guys need to just be a breeding ground for us like you guys need to just be reproducing children we you guys are our property. You guys are you know what I mean like we we we have control over your bodies and if we have control over your bodies like we tell you when you're going to have sex or not and how you're going to have sex and who you should have sex with because it's for our pleasure it's for how we as men. How how we want to utilize this tool or this some of the best men I know are the men who are well educated and well disciplined around sex. Like some of the best men I know are the ones who understand the repercussions of sex are very careful about what these work where they take their dick essentially and they also very curious and safe around practicing sexual activities and and of course we can't live in a world where that's all men right. That girl could dream but I always like to challenge people especially young women who say well men can't like they can't help themselves they need to have the sex they need to feel a certain way. No they don't they really don't like you think of control like you like as a young girl if you're listening to this I promise you that young boy who is telling you that he really needs like he's going to get blue. Oh the amount of blue balls conversations I used to have when I was younger that they used to bully the fudge out of me you never got that with boys. Yeah oh my god like I used to feel so like I thought blue balls was like a man is about to die. No no no like the way these teenage boys used to make me feel. Oh my god oh my god oh my god I can't I can't hold it oh my god you're hurting me oh like they have to pee like they have to die. No this is like they like they like they cannot handle this pain they feel and I apparently blue balls is painful. It's short. But they can sort that out. Get a fucking period every month for five fucking days and come back and talk to me over blue fucking balls. It's crazy the things that they make us believe. Like I use I'm telling you like if not that I was a strong willed child. The amount of guilt I used to carry when men would guilt me into trying to touch their dicks or touch their balls because their balls were so in need of my hands because of the balls. And I know like as young teenagers who are exploring that a lot of times that's the message they get. But that's why this actually I'm laughing but this actually just like something went off on my brain. Like when you're in a relationship with your boyfriend and he's like I have blue balls. Yes. And this is someone that you like and you want to get to know that you feel like shit and you're like wait I don't I don't want to do this. I don't want to make you feel bad. You know what I mean like I want to make you feel great like you're like you have a boyfriend you know like I have to fix this. I just want to cut his ball off. I just feel like this is serious. Let me see how blue it really can get. Don't pull me off. No like I just I just got triggered about now because blue balls used to piss me off. So if you listen to this they the mind was alive. If you don't like. I know we're laughing about this but yeah no we're honestly try to tow a very sophisticated line. Yeah. It's like sex is fun but also like it's serious. A serious is educational. It's educational. It's necessary. It's necessary. And I want you to unlearn a lot of the things that you've probably learned about sex. The thing is we're trying to tow a very sophisticated line because we want this to be a fun conversation where you just hear your older sisters keep keying. But also there is a low level of seriousness because sex is serious which I understand why our parents felt the way that they felt and like you didn't want us to. Because it could dramatically change your life. Like a child could dramatically change your life. Getting an SCD could dramatically change your life. These are not baby topics. These are not. And our language we call it summer color like this is not a joke. It's not a joke. Like it's a very serious thing. But also like these feelings and desires need an outlet and need a space where you can talk about it. In a lighthearted way so that you can ask questions and you can feel empowered to do that Google search. And you can also feel empowered to advocate for yourself when you're in these situations so that you are safe. And so that you're also enjoying it and you also understand that you deserve pleasure and this should be a pleasurable experience. I also think that like for also when we talk about sex it's often times when especially as young women it's talked about it with relation to a gift to be given to someone else. Or it's less about you and your desires and more about how your desires need to be focused on the man. Like we think about Bridgerton up because throughout Bridgerton you can see these young girls who like they have these needs like but it's oftentimes only at the pleasure of their husbands. Like they weren't sure what to do with this feeling because they weren't taught and the people who were they were able to go seek knowledge from were oftentimes like the prostitutes of the era. And even like Violet Bridgerton the mom when she finally was like I'm going through menopause I'm feeling all these urges but she never had sex past her husband. She didn't know or understand even at 50 plus what sexual needs were and it was only in relation to a man. And I mean it's so common discourse online where a lot of people were like oh she should have followed him because he was so nice to her. And I was like no I love that they didn't make her story art to be so she found a partner and now she's having sex and she has a husband now. It's she's finding herself like more women needs sex is a huge part of womanhood. It is a huge part of womanhood and for it's to be connected constantly to an idea of pleasureing a man for me is such a disservice. It has nothing like we need to start focusing on sex more for young women especially as a thing that you want to explore that the ownership around sexual needs and sexual desires is yours. And that's where like feminism and choice comes in like if you're a young woman and who understands that like oh if I have this pleasure and I know that if I do have sex I'm going to get pregnant. Then I'm not going to do it no matter who comes to me tell me they have new balls or if I am a young woman who's curious I want to practice safe sex because I know what it looks like to not be safe with sex. And I want to protect my body. My body because it's your body no one else is and if you're someone who's practicing religion and your religion says you know what sex is only permissible when you're married. Okay then your goal as a woman is what do I want I want to practice my religion and I want to wait till marriage. When you have those standards I promise you no jack no Adam no Musa no Kevin will change that because you know what you want and you you understand it you've learned it you're you're good for it. Right and I think that my frustration with sex now is like young girls are oftentimes like their need for pleasure and the sexual desires always dictated by oh if you do this the man is not going to like you or if you do that this man. Yes that's nothing to do with. No please. It has nothing that's the thing about sex and pleasure. It has nothing to do with men. Girls girls gays women ladies ladies ladies ladies. We want you to know as your big sister over here if you're watching this as a young girl like if you're young right Google what sex is. Understand the repercussions of sexual education understand sexual desires like be brave and asking someone and be curious. Not curious to put yourself at risk right but curious enough for you to know and be educated about your needs and your wants and have it have nothing to do with them because most times too if you grew up in a family where. You don't talk about sex your first introduction to sex when a boy is telling you the one to have sex with you. So now you're all you're thinking around sex is oh this boy says he can put his thing in mind so now I gotta listen to what he says versus. Oh you want to have sex with me no thanks I'm not interested and you can say that with your chest because you know what sex is and you. And also being able to advocate for your pleasure too like oh this doesn't feel good like you are not. Did you see that take talk what we're gonna get to the pleasure but the take talk of this girl who was like raise your hand if you've never come from a guy. Oh I did see that and I was everybody in the coming was like yeah girl we have it. You can't even get to that point if you don't even feel like your body is your own. And the thing is I feel like it would be remiss for us to have this conversation without mentioning FGM. I just think about how them experiencing FGM definitely impacts how they view or understand the autonomy over their body. Yeah can you tell them what FGM is? It is the practice of cutting and removing parts of the female genitalia so the clitoris. This is practiced in certain African and Middle Eastern countries. It's obviously not it's outlawed in the US but this is a practice that is very much still happening in guinea. Over 200 million girls. Yeah over 200 women girls and women are alive today have gone through FGM 200 million. And these are always the things that go through my mind when I think about like do you think like what you were born in? Yeah but I always think about how different my life would be if I was born in guinea because I probably definitely would have gone through FGM. And I just think about what FGM beyond just the physical of them literally cutting and taking something like that from a girl at such a young age. How that automatically conditions you at a young age of like everything here doesn't belong to me. It's not I don't have a right to it. People have made a decision to mutilate your body without your consent. So think about how that like rewires your psyche automatically. And like I wouldn't be surprised if our mother is never even thought or are like our aunties of that generation never even thought to discuss sex. Because it's automatically that traumatic incident has already instilled in them. No my body is not my choice my body doesn't belong to me and then you have elders who are reinforcing this with. Yeah no you need to save yourself for a man and you do this only to have children and produce for that man. That is your purpose is the value in this area. And this goes back to what I was saying of like when those men were you know sitting in that room and making the rules society. They understood sex was this normal thing that everybody will want to engage in and needs but they need to ultimately figure out a way to control women's bodies. So I have a friend who actually is going through FGM and like a really really close friend of mine. And she's the strongest person I know like genuinely superwoman. I don't know how she survives life and this is even outside of like just her experience more of like who she is and how strong she is. But I remember when she told me it was so casual like it was the like she dropped that thing into the conversation like I don't really think we were talking about anything to do is like but she just was like oh yeah. I don't know so like it just takes me a long time to come and I don't really come like that. And I just looked at and I was like what do you mean and then she explained it to me properly. And I was like I've heard about FGM but I never fully experienced it right because for me just I just never had been in spaces like where that was a conversation. And so even after me and her spoke about I did a deep dive on the practice and one thing that would never get past me is the idea that this is not meant to harm women because it is like nothing. You could tell like to the mothers who still do it to the aunties who still do it to the whole of the culture who still do it fuck you like genuinely from the bottom of my soul fuck you. And I have no respect for women who engage in this practice and I'm saying that from if I am sitting here and you're listening to this and you understand that you're like oh that's a cultural thing. Fuck you and that culture fuck you and that culture because nothing you could tell me nothing you could tell me could argue that cutting off a woman's part in the way they do it. A girl we can a baby a child a child's violating and they do it in like and it's different if this practice is done under anesthesia in a hospital under care. In the most barbaric way young girls are put through the most traumatic experience for culture their bodies mutilated for culture on this stupid man who's going to have four fucking wives or more for them to carry babies that are not going to be well taken care of and they're going to go through that same process again for culture fuck you on your culture. And that might sound harsh but this part of it needs to be harsh the harshness you know it needs to be harsh because I think about when I tried to even have these conversations with like my aunts or older African women the way they get so angry and they'll say in our language well minimum and I'm like which is essentially like We're going to we're going to stick to our culture like I don't know what you wear it out like you keep doing your weird ocean we're going to keep doing ours and I'm like I think they say about like the person I have little girls in my family that have experiences who are younger than me. And I feel very strongly about this because I know I also have friends and family friends who have gone through something like this and when they do start being sexually active the way that experience for them is so traumatic and devastating because they realize that something has been taking from them that they can never get back. Never that they can never get back and they didn't even have a choice in it you know they couldn't even fight against it there was nothing that they could do. And they have to find ways to or have to relearn relearn or reteach their body ways to have pleasure. Or even to even get to that point where to to think and believe they deserve pleasure it's a lot of therapy. It's a lot of therapy and working you have to have resources for things like that. So don't think about the people who don't have those resources and that's why I always when I look at it will probably be issue. People in like what's that we're talking about like trans children but I always just think about when you know the conversation around trans children come up and people are like. Trans children don't exist kids shouldn't be able to mutilate their bodies under all this concern about mutilating bodies and this that wasn't on the third. There are what you said 200 million what 200 million girls millions of girls every day baby girls are getting mutilated and nobody gives a fuck nobody saying anything mind you was I don't know it's apple. So it's not about it's not about y'all actually given a fuck about kids it's not actually you guys don't give a fuck clearly clearly y'all don't care about kids they don't I've seen. It's about controlling little girls and conditioning them and that's how deep this thing goes about sex like it's that deep like for me it was obviously you know I had a cute talk about sex but for some girls is actually deeper yeah you guys are cutting off parts of girls bodies. To teach them at a young age that sex is not something that belongs to them sex is not something that they should engage in like that is their sex talk if you think about it in itself yeah you don't you will not have the co-owness to talk about sex because it's literally been ripped from you yeah. Which I'm potentially maybe the first woman in my lineage that hasn't gone through something like this and how generations of women before me don't like have had this thing ripped from them taken from them. And when I think about it like that when I think about you know a lot of you know when we say what our mothers have gone through I can't help but have grace and like feel back for them when they do even say things like we're going to chase our culture because there are a plane of reality that you exist in like I can't even I can't even fathom it like I can intellectualize it and you know theorize around it and have my opinion and everything but I can't even fathom to understand what. Having something like that done to me at that age would do to my brain chemistry and I think that's for me that's even why it's so heartbreaking when women who who are curious sort of like behave like they don't have a choice. Because in many ways we do have a choice like your body has to be yours like we we're fighting so many wars in so many in so many areas that our body generally generally has to be asked if I was going to be canceled drag that enough we're talking about women's bodies being there is and women's choices being women's choices let me be dragged let me be canceled let me be all these things because we We are so powerful girls are so powerful women are meant to believe this world I say this all the time like we are we're a dynamic we're intentional we're emotionally intelligent we're we're so many things that society those weird men in that room. I've built these sort of like terrible terrible systems in place to keep women down and we hope with videos like this in episodes like this like you guys begin to question a lot of the things you're learning because that I think is the most important step like that's the only way that I think change ever happens like you guys know that like in the 40s women couldn't have bank accounts because they had to just get banks with their husbands go back. That was it like this is all brand new so we're in corporate girl boss women women wearing pants so it's very brand new women even traveling by themselves yeah like are having a lot of others could never do that for some people their mothers couldn't and this is all because I was born into a certain like gender into a certain role into a certain life you're crazy you're absolutely crazy doesn't make sense makes sense it makes your sense I think it's really important to recognize what control is versus what culture and religion. Because I think control is disguised as cool religion yeah people's desire to people's desire to control men's desire the patriarchy's desire to control women's bodies yeah is disguised they use religion and culture to disguise it yeah and we need to be able to recognize that in order we first we need to recognize that first. Yeah before we even start dispelling and empowering and making people feel like autonomous about their body yeah and I feel like for me a lot of this thing is also control around a woman's desire. So like the idea that like our desires or stuff that need to be hidden away that aren't like ours right because from a young age then you're all you're telling young girls is their desires will put them in trouble. So you shouldn't have desires your simple goal is to be a meal to give birth to this man's child to carry on his name and I've always struggled with desire even as like a Muslim woman because for for you to have desire feels like you have to be selfish and you have to chase your own needs and as a woman you're numbing to be selfish because your simple goal in this world is to be selfless selfless for other people that's what you're celebrated for. So how do you even like how do you even cross that like mental block like how do you get to a point where you realize that you should you should be selfish like you because this y'all is deep old I'm talking about it from like career chasing when you're chasing your career when you're talking about growth and your trust like even moving out of your parents home or getting a job like it's ingrained in you as a woman to be second. That's it like you were given birth and they're telling you have to be second place for me I just look at I look at the people I look at the women before me and I look at their lives and I'm like I don't know if that's what I know I was just thinking that too because well then okay let's bring back the FGM conversation now because the aunties who've been through that who said because the person before me did it I should do it too right like because I went through I survived. So you should survive too and then that cycle continues with culture and you see that in our culture is that breed women who are ashamed of desires because that's the story where I told like I was a virgin when I married your father so you have to be a virgin when you marry your husband. But we never equates for the fact that society is growing life is changing we have we're in the world of AI for example we didn't have AI three years ago yeah two years ago and since everybody's using it now so how can you convince people who are so determined to stick to a mindset that that mindset is wrong the need of mindset shift. This is my son very like cold but tell me they're all eventually going to die they are not I'm sorry like that scares me though because our generation like I'm telling people that you know that I know 28 year old girls who are still the most judgmental assholes who have the most archaic ideas of sex and I tell you this okay let me know don't get me wrong. Now I'm not telling everyone to go do orgs go fuck whoever you want go have sex and I think what I am sharing is you need to be educated about sex as a choice. You are eligible to partake in for your pleasure and your desire that is it and your body is your body is your own choice you do not need to think about your mom your pastor your uncle your auntie your mom your dad that desire is yours and yours alone no one has ownership over your body no one should ever have ownership over your body. So if you're a young girl your young woman or you're just someone right now because I know you I don't know people who are 28 right now who I have a fucking friend I always have a friend she does not understand the concept of sex being her choice I'm so serious like she would fly out if she's talking to a guy she could drive to his house to have sex tomorrow. Now you're probably wondering selfie aren't you all about body positivity and sex being a choice like it's her choice to make yes if she's making that choice based off of her reasoning but she's not she's making that choice because the man said if I don't have sex with you I'm not going to date you so she wants to show him that she's willing to be dated so she's going to go fuck him that's I don't want that to me is a no no yeah like I don't want anybody leaving this episode in thinking like if you're abstinent if you're celibate and that is a choice that you made for yourself. I fucking respect if you're a virgin at 35 you better because girl I wish it was me like this whole episode is about choice it's almost about choice it's about women's choice I just I you know what's crazy what I wish I wish that I every time a girl child was born I had a horn I was like choice. I wish I could just say that because young girls go through so much like your your life has to be controlled you have to be ashamed and it's oftentimes false empowerment when it's really just people taking away your control. It's always a journey back to yourself I feel like women are especially in your 20s if you have like the access and the privilege and space to do so I feel like so many women meant a lot of my girlfriends are always on this journey back to themselves because people spend 20 years creating this journey for you. And you end up at a point where you're like I didn't even want to be here but that's for me that's why I say like I look at the women before me I look at the marriages this thing that was like promise to me as like this is your ticket to sex yeah and you're looking at these marriages fall fall apart around you you're looking at all these women that saved themselves for these men that are cheating on them that are betraying them that are going and having children on them that are making their lives miserable. And then you're like but you you saved this thing for them you you you preserved yourself for them you did all the right things and then you're like you did all the right things and look at how this person treated you. And for me doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity. I was like you did all these things and you didn't get anything from it so I'm just going to have to do it my way even if my way is fucked up and like I end up whatever at least I didn't do it your way and end up in your situation because I don't want what you have. FGM is something that I plan on getting more involved in because I feel so passionately passionate about it and I think it honestly was a catalyst for me being brave enough to do this episode because you know you know I had a lot of fear. We'll talk about it some more but I hope people understand that this is such a nasty practice that we really do need to work work on eradicating. It has no place in religion this is not an Islamic practice yeah it should have no place in our culture. We are violating young girls without their concern we're violating babies just put that into perspective. And we're going to link resources and to support nonprofits and how to fight against FGM I think every African woman in the world should. Do their best to either support the cause or learn more about the cause because there are so many you'd be surprised how many African women have experienced this traumatic thing and I want it like we want to take the time to actually close out this part of the episode because I know it could be a bit of a trigger warning and we're going to input a trigger warning. At the beginning of the episode before we air this but I thought it was important to discuss this in the episode because I don't think you can talk about sex as an African woman without talking about FGM. I think for me specifically to when I think about FGM it will always go back to taking away someone's choice right like I think human human beings have a few day with taking away people's choices. That could be from wanting to take away people's lands to want to take away people's ownership and power and an educated girl child is one of the most powerful people you would ever meet. She's the most radical person you would ever meet. A young child who questions everything is the most radical person you'd ever meet. No change in society has ever happened without question like you are meant to be curious. If you're from a town, a city, a village, a country that FGM is still very widely practiced, I hope you leave this conversation with us. Talking to your aunts and moms about it, I understand maybe they're perspective and things and it's not your job to try to convince them but try your fucking hardest to convince them. Push the boundaries a little bit. You guys, if you follow my podcast, you know how much I share about how my mom is the strictest Muslim traditional woman you'd ever meet. I think she's learned so much because I've told her or helped her understand the art of questioning. I think there's a beauty in the world when we question because when you look back at it, the people who made these laws, they've gone, they've died and where they want still suffering it. So if we can make a change, then like the little we can do is try really hard to make sure that that change sticks and to have 200 fucking million girls and women living with FGM as at 2026. And that could be 6.8 million girls could join them by 2030. That's the most disgusting statistic I've ever seen and no girl child ever deserves to be mutilated in that way. And honestly, one thing those white men in that society chair, one thing they did really well is naming that correctly because I hate whenever there's something really terrible happening and people are like giving it a fancy name that doesn't say what it is, it is mutilation. You are mutilating a young child. It's disgusting and sad and they're definitely some change. So yes, we're going to put some resources in the description. This episode is going too long so it's going to have to be a two-part series. It's going to have to be, because I feel like the next part we're going to talk about like relationships, dating, sex, life, the juicy stuff. This one was all about like, you know, education, this is what sex is definition, religion, FGM. I think we should take a break. Yeah, I think this makes sense. Let her settle. We love you guys and we're going to see you in the next episode. We're going to see you in the next episode, just going on next week, right? Yeah. Oh, the week after. So that's the next week. Yeah. We're not next week right now. I meant like next week for them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So see you guys next week. Okay. Bye guys.