Are Men Okay? A Conversation about Masculinity, Emotions & Pressure ft. Swaggy Mo | AITL S2 EP 44

Welcome to a my to loud the podcast. Hey guys, welcome back to my to loud the podcast with Sophie aka the mother freaking oddity. My opinion for today would be I don't think men are okay. I don't think they even know they know okay. And I feel like the person as the guest for today's episode before we get into things is somebody who I feel like he has a unique take and way to talk to men that I don't get to see and it's pretty refreshing. And honestly, I think Mo is just really cool. So I'm going to introduce you to my first guest in Los Angeles. I have Mo with me. Hi, Mo. Good. Okay. I'm a whole intro for you guys if you don't know who Mo is you guys. I'm trying to be professional here. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So today on a my to loud we're joined by a man who is single handedly trying to prove that meant in fact kind of moisturize, lift heavy and keep their sanity all at the same time. I guess his Mohammed Bayet better known as Swaggy Mo, a creator, athlete, model, and wellness advocates based in Los Angeles. Am I getting it? Am I right? He was born to Gambia and sending Elise parents and grew up in a village in Gambia on 2015. Did I get that right? Look at me. Wait, where did you get that information? Before moving to the US and navigating colorism, bullying and being the dark skin African kid in America. Instead of shrinking, he transformed his body, his confidence in his life, making it is mission to help other men and women build self-worth through fitness, mindset, and self-care. Now he's a full-time content creator and model working with global fashion, fitness, and busy brands from runway and campaigns to health and skincare partnerships, including his most recent work with Sephora, which is huge guys. Today he's here for a conversation I've been dying to have because generally are men okay and straight men especially. And we're talking about masculinity, softness, gym bros, African parents, patriarchy, and everything else in more because sometimes vulnerability is not a personality flaw. Okay, you ready? That was. I was just like okay, let me just phenomenal. Yeah. Thanks. Well, that was fine. That was really good. So how are you? How are you doing? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Yeah, what have you been up to? Chillin. Good. Honestly, just been working honestly. It's just just working, working. It's not stop working. But I'm grateful because I prayed for times like this to be so busy. I don't know what to do with my life. Practically. I feel I feel amazing. I was telling people like season two of the podcast are people who I considered mutuals of friends. Friends were like at least I have some level of a personal relationship with me. A couple of times you've gone through the effort of like connecting in a way. And I think that's why I want to go into podcasts. And I don't think you know this. But the first time I saw you, you were doing a video online. I think you were doing a skincare routine or something. You're just like, men need to just get their shit together. And I remember saying actually, you don't see a lot of male straight men have social media platforms when it's not like the red pill. Yeah. If you do this, do that. And it felt like you're so sure of yourself and who you are. Is that something that you've just always been like, I'm just going to do me. I would say it's something that I kind of like grew into. Yeah, yeah, because when I first, especially when I was like in middle school, I used to be like very, very insecure because like I said, like as you as you noted, I used to get me front of a lot of being dark skin and whatnot. So that impacted my confidence a lot. So when I was when I got into high school, that's when I really like started like working out and really started putting like pouring into myself. And I guess like confidence just came out of nowhere. Like I guess there's a saying that like confidence come from doing difficult things or just putting yourself in like uncomfortable positions. So from that point on, I just I'm like, yo, I'm just going to do anything that makes me uncomfortable. And like starting to create content and being within the beauty space was a little bit uncomfortable because I would get a lot of comments. People are like, oh, you get you're like, I don't know nobody want to hit. I don't know about, you know what I'm saying? But now is the thing where like almost not a lot of guys, but many guys have skincare routines now where actually like it's becoming the norm is becoming something that is like that you supposed to do, you know, saying and I always say this like everybody has a skin. Like it's because you might have the same skin type as your mom or your sister or your girlfriend or whatever the case may be. What give you the reason to not like take care of it the same way that they take care of their skin, you know what I'm saying? So that really just so coming from middle school and going into high school gave me the confidence to really be like, yo, you can just do whatever you want to do. You don't have to like follow the waves or whatever. Just do your thing. Oh, I love that. I feel like it's so hard for men, especially. Let me tell you this because if you're new to the podcast, I say hi, whatever it is. And I feel like for the society we live in, men aren't taught to take their time to care for themselves. Like it's more like a grog, grog, grog, grog. Like let's just let's make the money. Let's do it. Like it feels like you're being fancy or frivolous by taking the time. So how do you balance that perception of you? So being Muslim, like it's something that's like cleanliness. It's huge. Like it's crucial. The washing of my like I on a regular wash myself like five times a day to pray, you know what I'm saying? So using soap on my face or just using moisturizers to like hydrate my skin doesn't make me any less masculine than any of the men out there. You know, and I feel I always talk about this like masculinity is not about what you put on or necessarily what you wear or what skincare products you use. I feel like it's an energy field. You know what I'm saying? Like you can wear as much skincare products as you want and still be the most masculine man out there. You know, it's just about how you carry yourself and like your internal state. So that whole correlation between taking care yourself equates to being feminine. I just never understood where that image comes from. And it's the dumbest thing ever. I'm going to show you a photo I saw and then we're going to react to a few things. And it's the same when I call like this came up on my FYP. What did you do your homework? You did with what's your stuff? Where's the videos that you brought? That's fine. I can play it. All right. But first I want to see if I can show you this. I'm just going to show you like a zoomed out lens of it. And it's basically this that says like let's break these outdated stereotypes. Some men experience sadness, shed tears and battle mental illness. Just like everyone else. There's no weakness and vulnerability. It's a sign of humanity. It's a time we redefine what it means to be a man. What does it take on that? Because honestly, can I be very honest with you? Yeah. When I first met you, I thought I would tell my friend. I mean, I was like, oh he's so arrogant. And I still like cause my perception of guys usually is like if guys are so vocal, they tend to be vocal while putting women down. And the more I go into your contact, I realize you're not actually talking to women. Like you're very specific and like I'm minding my business and I'm just talking straight to a man here. And most men have an issue with communicating directly to men without having to include women into it. So how do we how do we how do you think men are being like redefined right now? I feel well, I agree with that statement. First of all, but one of the things that I I feel like the one time that I've actually made content like dedicated to women was about telling women to like I was it wasn't even necessarily telling women. I was just saying, oh, I love when I see like black women. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. That was the only time that I've made content. I was like dedicated to because I feel I'm a man, first of all, so I understand to a degree what a lot of men go through. Yeah. You know, so regardless of how much I can try to study women or I can I can never tell a woman how to become a woman. Yeah. So in that sense, it's just like my area of expertise per se is speaking to other men that are like me who have been in the same position that I've been in. And you know, a man that I feel like I can kind of help guide into, you know, a better, better space than I was probably when I was a little bit younger even. I actually think we need to we need to break a lot of stereotypes actually. Well, what's one stereotype then that you feel like many to break off the coffee head? One that men can't talk about mental health. Yeah, that's true. And I feel it's one of these things where it's it's I can relate to a lot of men because I don't like burden to other people. Yeah. So it's just like if I'm talking to a woman, for example, like I wouldn't necessarily want to because I feel and you know what? And then also that the idea that like talking about mental health or talking about you not being well is like a sign of being weak. You know, and this I'm saying this, but this is something that I need to take myself because I struggle with this a lot where I'm just like, I don't necessarily like let people get too much into my inner life. Like I'm very close though. People think I'm like, people think I'm open, but I'm not open at all. Like I like you would people don't know much about me. I'm very private. Yeah. But that's that's one of the things that I feel as though many to break out of the idea. I like, oh, you have to be this hard much or much. This is like at the end of the day regardless of how difficult or how tough the situation is. There's someone that can possibly help you out and someone that can help guide you throughout, you know, the difficulties that you're going through. Yeah. No, I love that. I feel like you're so right with the whole mental health conversation because I feel like even like as an African, there's something we don't talk like every time you say something's wrong with you as an African, they're like your village people after you or you have the problem or there's something wrong somewhere and it can't possibly just be you're just not feeling okay. Yeah. And I think it also I was telling a friend this the other day that in Africa, you don't struggle, you struggle your mental health, but they're things in place to help you not really focus on it. You have your aunties, you have your uncles, you have cousins, you have nieces nephews running around. If you're feeling sad, you can go out and build in with the community. When you live in place like America, it's very isolating. Like super. If you're not careful, you can wake up one day and realize like you've no seen people in two weeks because you've been in your apartment and your apartment would have a gym, would have a pool, would have instacars, they can drop off food. And I said, if you have a car, you're done. You don't even see a neighbor like you don't see I don't know my neighbors are I legit don't see my I don't know their name. I don't next. I'm talking about next door like right there. Nothing. I don't know nobody. And it's actually kind of crazy, but I love the fact that you said like within in Africa, but I also feel sometimes like mental health also or being able to understand that you're mentally not where you want to be is a privilege. It is. It's a privilege that a lot of people don't have because if you're constantly like in survival mode survival, your brain is constantly trying to figure out how to survive. You're not necessarily thinking about how to thrive. You know what I'm saying? That's actually leaning into something I was seeing on the FRP where it's like an idle mind is a devil's workshop, but they did that like if you actually not if you're not going and chasing something, then you'd be you'd be able to get into your mental health a bit more and you start feeling vulnerable and all that stuff. But then people who are successful because I think we're both really successful in what we do. And I still feel like there's a part of me that gets worried that maybe I'm not good enough or the anxiety sets in and then you go into a spiral. But then I also realized that it's because I've got into a level of success that now I'm scared of the success that I've got into and that in itself is a problem because you don't want the success to go away. That's the thing. Like feeling like that it's a rug underneath it. I can constantly just get pulled. Any moment. It's so. Because you're blocked too. Oh please. And then for me, especially because some of the topics that I talk about is just like, I'm like, I do be hurt. Yeah. I'm just like, what is most saying? Yeah. But to me, the way I look at it is or one of the things that actually helps me is because I feel like God did not bring me this far to let me down. And I've been at the bottom of the bottom. And when I look back at it, it's nothing but like great lessons that I got from it. So I don't look at that. I fear that but I don't fear as much as I have faith that regardless of whether it's social media or anything else that I can possibly go into if I put in the same effort and the same energy that I put into it. Yeah. Like I will succeed. Like for example, for you, you're doing millions. Like honestly, I don't even know how you like you doing a million things at once. But you you had to hone in on to so many different things and discipline yourself to learn and to apply yourself to the fullest capabilities. Yeah. To be able to kind of like hone into those skills. So regardless of whether it's your own platform or somebody else's platform, you know you have gotten the skills that's going to be able to like take you wherever you want to go. And also when I think of that, I'm like, I'm a little bit more chill. And also the people that you meet along the way as well, the people that you meet along the journey because God forbid anything was to happen. I'm like, yeah, Sophia, you know, things are not looking too crazy. Am I too loud? You need a video video because I wouldn't know how to do a video. I wouldn't know how to do light and how to do it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I'll figure it out. Absolutely. I've always been a hustler in that in that sense. So this segment is called this came up on my FYP and it's basically the crazy things that we tend to see in our FYPs highlighted. I gave you some homework which is to find some stuff on your FYP. Yes. But I think the fun thing that you don't know is I'm actually pulling up stuff that you've posted that I saw. So that's the fun part from my end. Okay. So you showed me what's on your FYP and I showed you what's on my FYP was going to be videos you posted. So one of the first ones that I will show is you talking about Black men in street culture and street life in general. Where you said. I hope every Black man in America understands how stupid street culture really is. How idiotic and nonsensical it is. It's a loose, loose situation. And what drives me even more insane is that we have people that are all done enough to be getting their colonoscopy. Still out here talking about what street culture is and what street culture isn't. How haven't you done enough? How haven't you let LF Young Black man into the wrong path? And before anybody comes around and talk about all you wouldn't understand be quiet. You don't know what I've been through. Ten years of my life I spent in America I lived in gang infested neighborhoods. I went to school and gang infested neighborhoods. So you're not telling me nothing. I'm from uptown, New York. Other communities are talking about so many other things that's advancing them forward and we still talk on these degenerate ideas and low vibrational frequencies. How much longer are we going to make hip hop and rap culture? Black culture. You have to think bigger. The world is so much bigger than the Black and majority of y'all hold United States passports. Do you know what people would do for a US passport? This is the last time I'm ever going to be talking about this in the video because it's just so low vibrational. Think bigger, dream bigger, travel out, venture out, experience new things. I'll be blacking sometimes, listen, I'll be blacking. Let me say my first interpretation of that. When I was listening to that too, I saw guys for someone who talks and says a lot of shit online. Am I too loud if I say that you're not wrong and the message delivery and everything was exactly what it needed to be because even coming from back home, if it was like to what should not be having this conversation because we're not Black Americans. However, I like to tell people that we have the same idea and concept anywhere else in the world and the issue and the way you get past stuff like that is having these kind of conversations. What's actually good for our communities? What's the right thing because if you look at the movies, the content, the culture, it is so toxic and the rhetoric is so frustrating because yes, you're right. People are dying for this blue passport to travel the world to see the world and there's so many young Black kids I see who don't know past what they've been taught and before they've been taught is not past their block, there's nothing to do. And you hear this a lot often when it's like, oh, well, I can't help myself. No, you can. There's research now. There's opportunity. You can run away. You can do so much. So let's talk about why you chose to make that video. Why even trigger that? What triggered that video was against when young talk came out of jail. And I'm just seeing like people that are 40, 50, like, oh, you know, that he violated the street code that he, and I'm just thinking of myself. I'm like, no, like, what are you doing? Like, what are we doing as a people? And I, and that video actually got so much, like, I got so much mixed feedback. Well, it was, I would say 60% people agreeing and like maybe 65 and then 35 people are like, oh, yeah, African, you wouldn't know. But what people are not understanding is that like, yeah, I'm, I was born in Africa, but I was raised in the Bronx. And I have family members that actually owe that African parents that got into these gangs and got stabbed, got shot. So it's not limited to only the African American, and when I say black culture, I'm not talking about just African Americans. It's not just, no, it's not only African Americans that are in gangs, or it's Jamaican. Well, I was raised that uptown. It's legit. Nothing but Jamaicans and like, people from the Caribbean for the most part. You don't really see a lot of African Americans like that. It's all people from the Caribbean or people from, and there's a lot of African kids that are in gangs as well. So when I talk about black, when I say, like, how long are we going to let street culture be black culture? I'm not talking about African American culture alone because in the way that I think, or in the way that I process things, I'm not letting the fact that I was born in Africa separate me from the African Americans in the sense. Yes, I might not understand every, every single thing that might have been passed down in terms of like, when it comes to like the psychology of things, you know, of how it might have impacted African Americans. But I have studied enough to understand that like, you know what? I can feel your pain and I can empathize with your pain. You know what I'm saying? But at the same time, it's like, we have to, we have to call a spade a spade. And it's like, if for anybody, you cannot justify seeing young black men in the street, like just putting themself in danger and putting other people in harm's way as well. Like, how is that? Even if it was someone that wasn't black talking about it, it still, it doesn't change the fact that it's the truth. You have to just be able to swap. Sometimes you just have to just, and call it what it is. Somebody is calling the truth. It's the truth. Like the way that I live my life is like, if my, I feel like a lot of people, if they lived in a house and the houses don't fire, they would want somebody to be like, Hey, you know, your house is on fire. For me, it's like, yo, your house is on fire. Like, yo, like, wipe that, you know, it doesn't matter how you say it to me because that end of the day, I'm able to like look deeper within and be like, you know, what, my house is on fire. And because you told me you actually do care for me. You know, I'm saying that's the same way that I feel. And I don't even feel like my message was as crazy. But it's also like, it's things we don't talk about. You know, there's some things, there are some unspoken sort of rules in society like etiquette is essential, but not street etiquette, let's say, right? We're like, everybody knows it's wrong. Like it's weird. It's different. We shouldn't really be amplifying this message. It's like the Zeus network, the baddies. I don't know if you see that. Let me go get you started. But, you know, there's some stuff that you see and you know, we really should not be amplifying this message, especially for our community, but it's just something that is a thing. So when you hear people talking about that and criticizing it, they would think pieces of what we need this exists was like, yeah, but do we actually do we need that? And you know, it's actually been really what I've really been loving as of late is this like quarter zip. I've been loving that. I've been loving that because I feel like young black men need to like see themselves in positions that like empowers you. Yeah. You don't have to put nobody else down. You don't have to speak to people in a vulgar way. You don't have to, and it's just, it's just an energy freak. I feel like I'm just so happy about that whole trend. I'm actually so happy. It's not only FYP. It's actually my FYP. Yeah. I love it so much. Like, it's so fire. Okay. Tell me one from your homework. Yeah. Mine is definitely that that quarter zip. Let me see. Yeah. And not a quarter zip. It's like Nike tech. Like, no, we're doing quarter zip. It's crazy because actually my phone, I use two phones. So this I usually leave my home as well. I have my social media. So I don't even. That's what I do too. Yeah. I have three yards. Yeah. I have to leave the house. I'm like, yeah, I don't let me get on. Let me log off. Yeah. Let me log off here. But it's, where's this video? I actually screen recorded it. Let me see. It's like this. Nike tech. Absolutely not. I work in tech. Like, it's so fire. It's so, it's so fire. And I don't even think people understand like where this trend, like the potential that it has. Yeah. Because it's now someone young black man. Like, it's okay to be professional. It's okay to be to appear educated. It is okay to be clean cut and groomed. Yeah. And I love that. I really, really love that. Like, I love it. I just love that. Yeah. I love that because I feel like usually the way I create content, I don't really do anything. I don't. I don't. I don't ever do any trends. This is the only trend that I'm like, you know what? I actually want to hop on this trend. You know what I'm saying? So it's just dope. No, I love that. I feel like it's so interesting. Let me bring that up because I love the black men. I know are all in tech and Silicon Valley and all these places. But you don't really see them online because I don't think it's cool for them. But shit like this is happening. Now you're like, yeah, finally. No, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Like seeing young black men in quarter zips. It's tough. Everybody grew up. I even myself grew up like wearing Nike tags. And you know what I'm saying? So just seeing it's just so, so beautiful honestly. Okay, so I have another video about a pull-up for you. And this one is, I think one of my favorites. Muslims are not your enemy. And Islam is not this violent ideology that's coming to take over and changing your way of life. That's not how it is at all. You are better off probably having a Muslim neighbor than anyone else. And not to say that Muslims are perfect. We are not perfect. We are imperfect and flawed just like any other human being out there. Muslims have been dehumanized so much for the action of just few that don't represent Muslims or Islam at all. Whose victims are Muslims more than anyone else. There are two billion Muslims more than two billion Muslims in the world. If every Muslim wanted to harm you, the world will be over. As Muslims, we want to become the best version of ourselves, contribute to society and worship God. If you want to study and understand Islam, pick up the crown. It has been translated in many languages. So you can get the direct word yourself. And another thing, please don't use other people's cultural practices to represent Islam because it does not. Another talking point that's completely false is that Islam oppresses women. Islam does not. Islam gave women the right to education, the right to home ownership, the right to inheritance, and so many other rights. And lastly, Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu wa Sallam said, the most perfect of believers are those who are best in conduct and kind to their families. That is what Islam represents. And I urge for you to just pick up the Quran and read for yourself. I read the Bible myself, the book of Proverbs to be exact. In Islam, we are encouraged to seek out knowledge and educate ourselves the best way that we possibly can. So please be mindful of the rhetoric that you speak out there. So I watched that and I loved this so much. But also, I think we've actually never talked about this. But I'm Muslim, right? But I am not a practicing Muslim anymore. And in the video before this video is coming out, I think maybe two videos, I'm not sure when your episode is coming out. But I talked about how organized religion is a scam, not religion and not faith, but organized religion itself because I fear that we put so much emphasis on humans leading us to some level of heaven or aspiration in that way that we forget that religion and faith is such a personal endeavor, it's such a personal quest. So seeing you talk about that, especially because I was also in Nigeria when Trump did the whole Christian nationalities, we're going to come on save Christians in Nigeria, come and save us. And I remember thinking that being Muslim, because people I love people asking me to be like, oh, why don't I say I'm not Muslim anymore? Because I'm like, I would always be Muslim. As my core, I'm always going to be Muslim. I don't, I've also read the Bible. I've also read the Torah. Like I've always been seeking knowledge. But I always struggle with the way it's portrayed in the media, especially because humans are such vile creatures sometimes in the way we weaponize culture and religion to our end. So how does it feel to be like a Muslim man in America around this particular time? I feel the way I create content is I feel like I feel like many other people can kind of like relate to as well. Ideas just come to me and I just act upon them. But one thing I realized though is that like Islam has, Islam is such a beautiful religion and it has done so much for me. I was born and raised Muslim, but I've had to kind of like rediscover it on my own kind of, you know. And just understanding like how it's done, like it's done such a disservice kind of like throughout within, especially within the West. And one of the things that I've kind of been talking about as a lot lately, I actually made another video kind of like a follow up of that is the fact that like religion or especially the Islamic religion has been you who's extremism as to say as a political vehicle in most of the places, then it is like a religious thing. Like I don't know of any practice of Muslim that would say that anything that an extremist does is something that is right or something that Muslims stand for. You know what I'm saying? But the way they say, oh the Muslims, the Muslims, the Muslims and especially things, you know, 9-11 happened, right? It's like all Muslims are kind of like put under this same umbrella when in reality like the way they describe Islam is nothing compared to what Islam actually is. You know what I'm saying? And I feel like people are actually now starting to wake up and realize like, yo, what have I been thought all this time, you know, about this religion, all these people? And what are some of the things that are fabricated to kind of like make me not like them or make them make me hate them? And I think especially today's this video that I was watching as I was watching recently with this, it actually went viral on TikTok. This lady that was calling like churches. Oh, I saw that. Yeah. That's what it wasn't that for me too. Yeah. And then it's just like, people are starting to see that like the true love and compassion that a lot of Muslims have. We're not perfect, you know, and but we all people that try and we absolutely love and really would help out any and every single person that we possibly can. You know, so to me, I'm just I'm grateful. I'm really grateful to be to be Muslim. And I also feel I get what you're saying in terms of like the organized religion aspect of things, but I feel like Muslims also know this for the most part is a deeply personal journey. And it does happen to be in Islam. They are setting protocols that are supposed to be followed. I'm trying my best to adhere to a lot of the principles, you know, and really do my best. But at the end of the day, heaven is not necessarily for the in Islam, they're just saying that like heaven necessarily is not for the perfect person or not. It's not for the person that doesn't sin, you only get into having mainly because of God's mercy, you know, and I feel as though one of the things that I try my best is just to become the best person that I can possibly become and become a contributor member of society. And then, you know, try my best to to sigh away from the sin. We all sin in some capacity in some ways, say, perform. And so how do I just try to be better than I was yesterday? That's my overall goal every single time. I love that. Okay. You were talking. I just thought about this. You sound like someone who has their shit together. And for a lot of people like that is something that are sometimes they feel like they can't relate to. So what is something that you consider, and it's never further my questions, advice or something that you really still struggle with? What is advice? I guess sometimes distraction. Okay. It's like social media. Social media can be a distraction. I feel like what do you watch? I can't imagine what your FYP looks like. My FYF is just like I watch a lot of a lot of political. Yeah. Okay. Sometimes sometimes it's just like funny stuff. Like I love watching like the Nigerian skits. Like Mr. Funny. Like I'm obsessed with Nigerians. And we're chaotic. Funny and I'm not just supposed to go to Nigeria and do something. You coming? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would just find it. Yeah. I would just going to be a vibe. Well, you should come to Lagos though. I might. Yeah, I might. Yeah, it's not far. It's like 40 minutes. So you're going to are you going to fly straight into a booja? I think so. Somebody was booking mine. But I love watching like the skit me because I can legit just stay on. That's definitely a vice of mind. What other what advice would I say I have? This is not to like try to say I'm perfect. Trust me. I feel like. I feel like. Yeah, I feel like another vice that I would say I've I've struggled with is just discipline myself from women. Yeah. And not necessarily even just being a woman, but even talking to women or like China, just trying my best to not entertain women to that capacity. Well, how are you getting married? No, yeah. I would talk to but like just not trying to like, yeah, and I feel like I just feel as though like, yeah, I just I love women. Like I really and truly love women. I feel like that's one of my biggest weaknesses. You're working on that. Yeah. So I'm working on like just discipline myself from not necessarily like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that way how old are you? 29 really? Oh, what I think you're like your early 20s. Really? I swear. I just thought you were like, you know what? You have someone who's like an old soul. Yeah. I always just assumed you're an old soul. I guess I'm age because I'm 28. Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. Okay. All right, guys. Now we're going to put more into the loud guest seat where I have a bunch of questions. We're going to play games. I just feel so professional right now. This is great. Um, so we're going to start with when did you first realize it was a right way? You were supposed to be a man. What I mean by that is like, did you ever get to a point where like you are interested in something you hear someone say that's someone men do or was there like a maybe when you were younger and you're like, boys, good this way, boys, good, that way. Like what age was that for you? I think for me, it was actually one side become, well, I think I was probably like 19. Yeah. Um, or maybe even 18 when I think it's oddly enough, I started with skincare. Yeah. And um, I remember that's one like proactive. When when was proactive? Actually, actually, I like, I like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I used to like struggle with acne and stuff like that. So I was, I was doing that. I remember talking about it once in school. And I was like, you used to use that. I'm like, yeah, like there's nothing wrong with using this. I can't from now point in our realize, I'm like, a lot of these men of like a lot of us men are led in like so many different directions. To the point where we really lost like the track of what being a masculine man truly is. It's not about like necessarily like to to how would I call it to equate taking care of yourself with being less masculine. I just never on. It's just, it's just dumb. From that point on, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to be my own man. And I'm just going to like just try to figure out how can I become the most the best masculine person on myself. So definitely this is when I was a lot younger for sure. So growing up like Gambian and Sangalese now, what messages did you get about men and emotions? And who taught you that? Like was like a father figure uncle. So it is because I know for a fact your uncle was not doing skincare and your uncle was not over there telling you to teach you anything about being a guy. So how did you sort of like learn? So I feel like that's my biggest issue. I don't want to say biggest issue, but that's something that I often feel like men lack growing up is like the male role model. And especially if they have good ones because usually the male role model they have is like, if your uncle was in the streets gang, he wants to be in like street gang too. If your uncle was, you know, a terrible husband, you want to be a terrible husband too. Like he's really always that very negative. So how did you sort of like navigate that? What message did you get? For me, so growing up, I've never, I didn't really have from when I was younger until I was like about 15. Yeah. I didn't really have much of a a great connection with any, I didn't have much of a connection with any men in my life, for example. So my dad was here and my grandpa was like, I was basically raised by my grandpa and my grandma. Yeah. And so and then my uncle's as well. But my relationship with my uncle's was not good at all. Like I used to get like really like abuse a lot from them. Like, well, so I grew up as a farmer. Like a peanut farmer and then so we would often time go to the farm and then like, I would just be like, I don't know where it just get beaten, I don't know where you know. And I felt like it was this kind of like animosity that they had towards my dad that he, you know, it's a broad or whatever the case may be. And so I felt like whatever anger they had, they just like they just took it out on me. So I never really had a man to show me how to be a man until I was like, yeah, I never really had a man to show me how to be a man to be quite frank. It was just mainly my grandma that I felt like raised me practically by herself, you know. And when I say, I don't have, I didn't have any man teach me how to be a man. It's like my grandpa was there, but I never really had, my grandpa was a man of like very few words. Like he barely spoke. So we never had like conversations like, oh, this is this, this is that like I saw him there. And as like the father figure of the house, like the whole compound, but we didn't have too much of like a, like a personal relationship apart from that. And so how I learned, how I learned how to like become the the most masculine version of myself is just through learning learning, like reading books. And I started to understand a lot of the things that like men equate to masculinity is not actually masculine at all. You know, a lot of men equate, you know, being promiscuous and, you know, kind of like getting dopamine hits from all of these different things, like asked it like to be the masculine, most masculine version of themselves. But to me, I think that's like the weakest thing that you can possibly do. You know, and, you know, I love women. Like I just love women like all my heart. But you start to understand that a lot of people, a lot of guys, especially use women as a form of escape. You know, it's just like, yeah, okay. So let me just do this. And then boom, next thing, you know, you in a whole different universe for the next 15 minutes or whatever the case may be. And then you kind of forget about all of the things that you actually need to work on. But I often say the moment that a man like really cuts like women or like just having just ordinary, I don't know, sex like that. You really discover so much about yourself. Like you go to like a different, like you go to like a different place. Because oftentimes as men, like our biggest weakness is women. So if you're able to like withstand, if you're able to like discipline yourself to like not, you know, watch porn or not, um, be like sleeping around with every single person that you can possibly find. Yeah. You just like put yourself above maybe 99% of all men. You know what I'm saying? Because you're not ruled by the flesh in a sense. You know what I'm saying? I do. And this is so interesting. Because me and my producer don't all talk about this all the time. We actually had an episode about men and masculinity and control in between different episodes anyways. And I have this like theory that young boys are oftentimes shaped poorly because of the lack of conversation that happens to them early. So like if you're 12 or 13, you just discover your penis for the first time and no money your family is going to tell you how to do all you know is, oh, my uncle, my dad has always doing this with my mom or you're going on porn, you're talking to friends in school. There's no tough conversations that I had on control on respect. Like the one of times we hear growing up that, oh, it boy likes you if he hits you versus, oh, if it boy likes you, he will court you by getting your flowers and writing notes. Because the ones who do that are the ones who are gay, the ones who are doing extra stuff because a masculine boy should show his dominance and show his prowess and so were you just someone who knew to be better or was it just like was it your grandma teaching you because I have this ethos that a lot of the male friends I have, they all have female romandas like they all have like in so many ways like maybe they're close with their mom or they have elder sisters that sort of like shapes their respects and understanding of how to treat women. You know what I think doesn't get spoken up about enough as the relationship between African men. And our dads. It's so crazy because I feel like most African men don't have a great relationship with their dad. When I say a great relationship, I mean a relationship where they can actually talk about things that are uncomfortable or things that might be a little bit unconventional in a sense. I'm so grateful for the relationship that I have with my dad and I feel like I've gotten so much better throughout the years. But most African men, I feel like have this idea of most African dads, I would say have this idea of like instilling fear into their sons. It's just like, oh yeah, I'm the macho man, I'm the dominant one. And it's just like they never truly allowed themselves to just cause because they constantly feel like they have to keep this image. If not, their son is going to try them. But what I feel like they don't they're not understanding is that as a growing man, you can be like as a dad, you can I feel like you can be an awful. You can you can be the man at the house and still bring a young one up to be just as dominant as you are without necessarily constantly feeling making them feel threatened. Because that's what happens is if especially as a growing young man, if I feel threatened, my initial thought or reaction is how do I neutralize that threat. And I feel like there's constantly like that clash of masculinity power that's going on between, you know, fathers and their sons. And it can be very damaging because most even if it's not necessarily anything wrong, most young men never feel like they can open up to their dads because it's just like there's constantly that that sense of like, yeah, he thinks he's too tired. You know, it's just I feel like it's just a matter. You hear like two, three-year-old boys who might be the boy talks about what pushing you like how dare you and they are like it's a child like a child would want to push back like that's normal because they're going to you're threatening their autonomy. First of all, they don't know better. And you then hitting them or showing them like you're the boss or you need to respect me. It's something that will stick with them like, okay, so I know I need to be aggressive too. Yeah. If someone does the same thing to me and the cycle continues. And it's not even just a disciplinary aspect of things. It's just constantly there's this just energy of just like, oh, oh, you know, I'm saying and it's just like it's cool to just be able to chill and like really kind of sort a little bit of a softness sometimes. Yeah. You can still teach a man to be the best man that they can possibly be without necessarily having to feel having them feel like they constantly in like a flight, fight or flight. Yeah. Because I didn't know my dad. And I tell people this all the time that whenever I would tell my mom, like, oh, my thank god, you don't have a husband, I should be like, why would you say that to me? And I always say because everyone's dad is so mean. Like, I'll be like, how are they happy? Like, visiting a day will come in boarding school. And people's fathers will come and you see the energy in the place just for all the men are coming into the house. Like everybody's like, the mom is like rushing around and hiding. And I was like, that doesn't feel like a safe home for me. And my mom was always like, no, like you pray for a husband who'll show you that you kind of laugh to. And I'm like, yeah, but why don't why don't their dad like what does that right now? I don't they love their kids enough to show them that. So I think it's so right that we don't necessarily talk about African parents and that relationship. Hopefully it changes. I feel like you would be like our generation. I hope is like the fresh start. Oh, trust me. And I think that's why I'm so I'm so grateful for the platform that I have. Because although I'm not perfect, but my heart isn't the right place. Yeah. And I'm trying my best to become the best version of myself because I know there's a lot of young men, a lot of young African men that are looking up to me. And just trying to kind of like change the narrative a little bit because I feel like some things do need to shift. There should be no reason why as a young man, I sit in I don't feel comfortable. I don't I don't feel comfortable talking to my dad and like about things that I'm necessarily going through. Yeah. And I know this you can I can almost guarantee this every single African man for the most part doesn't have a close relationship with their dad. Yeah. You know, and it's it's it's it's very sad. I think they do is usually a respect side relationship is not a I want I'm able to share and open up this more of like a I respect him so much because he's made himself so big to me. But it's not it's not a human. It's not a it doesn't feel like even relatable. It's not even respect really. Yeah, fear. Yeah. And that fear is constant. There's like a constant way of like even if you're not doing it, you actually thinking of how do I neutral because nobody likes to be in a fight or flight. Yeah, yeah. But that's what a lot of African men, a lot of young African men, that's the the mode that they're in like 24 seven. And it's just like man, like as a dad, you know how like a lot of other cultures I feel like sometimes like their son can actually like open up to their dad. They can talk about a lot of things. Yeah. I just feel like that's how you really train your young man to become like the the man that you want him to be or the man that he can possibly become. Yeah. Okay. So I'm curious now about your take on this and I'm this will be an interesting conversation. But are you a feminist? Feminist in what sense? And you're going to ask me that. Okay. So this is an educational like space in a way, because a lot of times when I ask African men that question, are you a feminist? They tend to be like the answer is exactly especially the ones who are educated and who are open minded, always ask me. They don't say no immediately. They always say, what do I mean by that? What am I feminist? Because typically propaganda shared that old feminism is like this outline crazy, wolding, whatever, whatever. But I like to say at the core definition of being a feminist is someone who believes in the equity of men and women. No, no equality because I don't think women and women and men are equal. I think in the equity and equity is, I don't know if you'll have seen that card. So I'm going to try to put it here of kids are watching or people are watching a football game. And you give everybody the same step in stool, but there's someone who's shot at someone who's told us someone who's fat, someone who's skinny, and the all kind, yeah, they all can't really see over in different ways. Or you give everybody like different level to match their power. So that's what feminism is, right? It's like if me or you are both equipped to be in the same space, but because you're solely a man, you get the bigger opportunity. That's when it's anti-feminist. So I say that because if a lot of men who might be watching this might listen to you and be like, oh, he can't be a feminist, I'm like, no, because at the core, what you're sharing is if men pour into themselves in the right way, there's a balance that tends to happen. And the world just moves a bit smoother. So now that I told you the meaning, are you a feminist? I am a feminist. I am a feminist. In a sense that, you know, I'm a big believer in the idea of like empowering women. Yeah. Right. And I feel like a lot of men kind of have this and a lot of women do let the idea of like, for example, finances kind of like get in the way of being their most feminine self. Yeah. And I feel as though like it's almost finances is almost rubbing women away from their feminism. But we talk about this real quick. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I am of the opinion that how we are raised is what makes that be an issue. Because when you're growing up, a young girl and a young boy, right, boys are trained are raised to be providers. Yeah. Like it's grilled in them, make money, make sure your family is set for life. Generation and wealth is everything. Men are taught to be bit time math even. Like as a girl, you should go and draw, go and do dance recitals, go and wear frilly dresses. And that's usually already the divide is there at birth. And then you get to a point as you're an adult now. So you get a lot of women who grew up having no idea about financial responsibility, finances, because they're going to be taken care of. And it was easier in the world where men had, you know, the opportunities to be there. Because patriarchy was still very, very strong, maybe in the 80s, 1970s, right. And when men were flourishing a lot more, the life was good. Everywhere is good. Now, you know, the feminist movements started happening. Women started getting more opportunities to remain in getting jobs. But then also as this is happening, the economy is getting worse. Like men actually suffer. Like everybody is struggling. I mean, I look at you like, you need to also stop letting the parents, you need to start helping me here. But we're not raising young girls. We're not then I hope. And now I see a lot of women now getting into STEM and being business owners and providers and influencer industry is a huge part of like women also getting. So in the summer, they need to start making their own money too. People are now saying, oh, we actually, it's better when it's balanced. Like it's better when it's like, oh, I'm able to provide for myself. I am whole and I have a partner who's whole to the conversation now loses its sort of like drama about financial support. Because even me, everyone I've dated, because I make my own money. I have my resources. Everyone I've always dated. It's never been a question that I wouldn't feel feminine. I wouldn't let myself go because I know I feel safe in my relationship because I also feel like I know who I am as a person. And most young girls don't because they're taught your provider and your leader will come. And I want that sort of to shift and change because men love powerful women who know what they're doing, what they're capable of and also able to treat them to because it should be fun like life and relationships should be fun. It should be fun. It's interesting when a man is a provider. I see I think of homes when the man is a provider. But when he comes home, it's like, oh, yeah, his wife probably wins her business and then she came back home. Maybe she doesn't have a business but she's just done, she's maybe bought some new things in the house because she just feels like it. She got him some stuff so she's taking care of the kids and she's taking care of him too. It's equally yoked in a way. And I think most of the conversations around finances makes women feel like they can't be safe because then there's a frustration now from a lot of men too about like, I'm trying to work hard if you don't ask me for a Birken bag when you did it and it's like, well, society is changing guys. Now, I agree with which it takes for sure. But I feel like most women, like I said, let the idea of finances kind of like rub them away of that softness. You can make money, you can be powerful and still be in a sense like soft enough to nurturing enough to be a family woman. You know what I'm saying? And I feel like a lot of women, they kind of like they think, okay, because I'm able to provide for myself, now I need to like really be very rugged and very, and it's just like what you're not understanding no matter how masculine you are, you would never be more masculine than a man. Let me push back and say yes. However, I think most of that feeling and frustration from the women's perspective is a woman who's trying to earn has to be rugged and masculine. You know what I mean? So it's hard to then transition into the home. So I'll give you an example, right? If I'm going into the world and Thames is a beautiful example, actually, you know what I mean? Thames is a talented, super sexy talented woman, right? And she shared how like when she first started in the industry, she had to pull baggy clothes on, she wasn't sexualized. So imagine a woman like that in her space. If she finds a partner, I don't know where her story is, where she finds a partner, it might be harder to get out of that mindset of I need to show you that I'm not just a body, like I'm also talented. I'm also this I'm also person and human you bring to the table. That's why I say the ownership then comes on the man or the partner in that relationship to show that you can let that go. Like when you come home, you can let that go. Absolutely. You can relax. Absolutely. Like I got you. And that usually comes from a level of emotional intelligence. Most people don't have the patience for. Yeah. And I think especially most men, because it's like automatically like, okay, you're home now now be soft. It's like, no, you can't say that because you're making me you're telling me to unlearn what I've just experienced the last 24 hours of doing on figuring out fighting to come on just switch it for you. How do you make me feel safe now to make me even want to even ask me to be soft. Yeah. It's automatic. I've provided that space for you to be soft. Absolutely. And I tell a lot of people who struggle with that balance too, because I think it goes from men to right. Men oftentimes in relationship don't know how to be like, let me open with my partner. Let me open up. We're struggling financially here. How can we support? Because again, another subset of that is you might have a partner who's like, oh, you're suffering out of here. So it's respect for each other in partner relationships and also being able to understand emotional awareness and intelligence to get both of you to like be in the same path and level. And I feel like I love that you said that because that kind of like comes in with the whole empowering your woman, you know, and it doesn't only happen is not even about finances most of the time. It's really about just making your woman feel safe, making your woman feel like she can just be herself. Because as men, we are constantly like this. Women go through so many different emotional phases, their bodies changes. So many things that they go through that's different from a man. So it's just like as a man, you have to really understand regardless of how strong she is, she's still weak. You know, I'm saying in a sense that like, compared to you, you know what I'm saying? And I don't say weak in a sense of, women are incapable. No, it's just saying that like, her weakness in comparison to you is her strength as well. Because they are able to tap into like an energy field or a frequency that you can never tap into no matter how masculine or how much money you have. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, interesting. Okay, so how does fitness come into all of this? Because I feel like for a lot of men, they oftentimes find the gym as like their safe space or the outlet. Run it and actually like maybe seeking therapy or doing wellness practices. So how do you, like how do, how does the gym? Because I know you work out. You just run the marathon. Congrats. How was it? Yeah, I told you. It's like, I love it. I see. He just ran the anoyce marathon. Killed it. Your time was amazing too. Oh, thank you. So how, how, how does fitness come into all this for you? Um, for me, you know, funny enough, you're talking about mental, the way you set it, right? And you just described me perfectly. So I struggled with like mental health quite a bit. I had this thing called, um, de-realization and depersonalization. Okay. Where is that you, you feel like I feel like I'm in a dream state. Like I don't feel like I feel like I'm constantly just floating on clouds. It feels so crazy. It's like I can be in a room full of people but still feel so alone. Yeah. And like with that comes with like short term, like memory, like it was just so crazy because I would have to study twice as hard and still not be able to like retain information. So it was very difficult for me. The only time that I felt like my presence self, or I felt like my normal self was when I was in the gym. And so because of that work, my relationship with working out has been something that's so religiously kind of like embedded in my routine. Yeah. To the point where if I go three days up to this point now, if I go three, four days without getting active, like I become so pessimistic. Like I start thinking so negative. Like I and I know that it's just that's my sign to just like get back into the gym, you know what I'm saying? So often like for the last, what? 15 years or so, the most I've ever taken the most I've ever sat off from the gym was probably like four days. Wow. That's great. So I just have to be super like I'm aware of this. And I know that like talking about it alone is not going to like kind of get rid of get rid of that for me. So I have to be like very, very like cognizant of of of of making sure that like okay, this is what makes you feel good. This is what makes you feel you. So don't neglect it. You know, and so it's been life changing for me honestly. It's been one of the like most amazing things I've ever done. I love that. Okay. So now you have to be honest with me. And because I think you talk when we have a conversation, I think there's a lot of expectations on you as a man. I like to say that expressions on men are usually by them. Yeah. Versus like other people in the world. Like a man puts that much pressure on himself because society has told the man that he needs to put pressure on himself. True or false. I would say it's half of me to say true or false because pressure is not necessarily bad. Okay, tell me. You know, like pressure is not bad. And I feel the same way I say being able to know or being able to like struggling through kind of like mental health to a degree is a privilege. Strong like pressure also is a privilege. Because if you don't have the like as a man, it's men grow through challenge. Yeah. Like and grow through challenge. Grow through challenge. Okay. Men go grow going through like adversity and like, you know, and it doesn't need to be anything too, too crazy. But you have to discover your masculinity. You have to find your masculinity. Yeah. And that's why it's just like oftentimes like for example, like a wealthy person or a rich person think that they can provide every single thing for their son. Your son still needs to discover his own manhood. You know what I'm saying? And I feel as though like you know in Africa, right? There's points where there are times especially like in the village. There are times where there are so many different kind of like stages that are that are chaptered off where you know that okay, when I come to this level, I'm no longer a boy. I'm a man. You go through ceremony. You're kind of like, you know, rituals to a degree like for example, like circumcision, circumcision, like a lot of those things kind of like symbol where you go, you know, you locked away with a bunch of men where they teach you a lot of the things about like a lot of ways of a man and things that are short. Yeah. So you automatically like this is a switch that goes off because you go into something that's difficult. A lot of those rituals, lots of things that are very difficult as well. So you kind of discover yourself through that. So without pressure, you constantly go through life and thinking like things are sweet, but it's not sweet because as a man, you are going to be tested in so many different ways. You're going to be tested. Your family is going to test you. Your woman is going to test you so many different ways. So you have to figure out how do you, the only way that you can become the most masculine and the best version of yourself is to go through those kind of like trials and tribulations and still be able to withstand and still be able to carry yourself and operate in a sense, like in a way that you can operate. You know what I'm saying? As a man, I never been tested before. You get into a relationship and all of a sudden you feel like your woman is testing you. And a lot of the times people don't know how to kind of like deal with those emotional things. Yeah. Rather than someone that really been through it, life been slapping you all left and right. Yeah. But you still been operating, you still been steadfast and doing the things that you need to do. So pressure is good to me. I appreciate pressure to be quite frank. So, but I do feel when it comes to like a lot of some financial things, some, yeah, some do. But for me, I put that pressure on myself, not necessarily society, because I want to be a man that provides for my family. Like, and to me, I feel like that's a part of manhood, like being a provider. And so I don't ever want to go in a world where I feel as though I don't have that pressure on me to not be excelled, to not be, you know, at the end of the day, I still have to be a protected and a provider for my family. You know, and in this day and age, it's just like, yeah, there's, yeah, your woman can work as well. But I'm not necessarily looking at my woman for her to be a provider for the family. At the end of the day, even if I can afford only a closet, God forbid, that I want to take pride in being able to be like, you know what? This is the closet that I have and if you are able to kind of build with me and come to that closet, come to that closet and let's build together. Yeah. So interesting. I love that. I feel like I love hearing perspectives like this because it, it's, it tells my listeners listening that there's so many different facets and types of men and manhood out there. Because in many ways, like, I'm just thinking about what you're saying, any cast, Justin, Donald, folks who have been on the podcast, and how their perspectives are so different, but at the core of it, it's chasing this idea of becoming one's best self. Like, that's what, like, at the core of it, like, if humans spent enough time looking inward and saying, how can I be the best version of me? I think there's so many things in this world that will be going better because you, you forget, you underestimate the power of sort of like being yourself and honing in on like, going, working out properly, making sure your mind is right, making sure your finances are right. As a person to even become the best version so you can provide for people and so on. Interesting. Okay. So, um, when, have you ever, because you've mentioned wanting or a partner who is soft or talking about softness, do you feel like you are capable of being soft or has it been a time in the past where you've let yourself be soft? Um, that's a struggle. Yeah. It's a struggle of mine because it's a kind of let down guard down and this is some of the things that I've been learning. This is really great book. It's called The Way of the Supreme Man. And it just talks about just how you kind of like deal with your woman to an extreme, to a degree or whatever, like just ways that you can be the best version of yourself essentially. But I'm starting to learn that you just like, you have to be more sophisticated in a sense and you have to be able to compartmentalize, you know, like I can go out in the world and do whatever but still when I get home to just be soft and be, you know, easy to deal with, be very calm. I'm actually very calm in person. I feel like oftentimes people when they meet me, like they are so shocked because they expect me to be, but I'm just super, super chill. So just being able to kind of like balance that, I think it's very important. So, yeah. I think it's interesting because you still do not say if you're soft or not, you say it's a struggle. Do you think what is your definition of being soft, though? My definition of being soft is just, okay, that's a good. My definition of being soft is just kind of not having to carry this hat of like, I have my shit together. Yeah, yeah, like constantly just everything is perfect, you know what I'm saying? And just being able to like open up, like, and I've been actually doing that a lot. Like if I'm not feeling well, I'll tell you, I'm not feeling well. I'm not feeling my best right now. If I need some time, I'll tell you, I need some, some little bit of time to kind of like just figure this thing out. So just being able to communicate your actual feelings to me, that is like the ultimate, like, softness. Yeah. And it's something that I've struggled with for a long time because I constantly felt like I had to like fight my battles by myself. But what you realize is that once you get a partner, you no longer operate as an individual, you know, it's just what however, you know, especially if she cares about you, I hope she cares about you, but what you're going through also with impact in a way as well. So yeah, being able to communicate and be able to literally talk about my feelings, I feel like it's, yeah, my definition of softness. So I'm getting softer. So in that scenario, then, I like to say that men struggle because they don't have community. Yeah. And the topic I was going to title for this is like our men okay. And I say that a lot of men will go farther and be maybe a lot stronger if they had community. Like boys just don't talk. Like y'all don't talk to each other. Y'all don't hug each other. You don't ask each other if you're okay. Yeah. Like there's this trend I was going around where like guys will call their friends and like maybe at night and be like, I love you. We're a good night. And the guys are like, yeah, okay. So like, do you have a community of men? Are you seeking that? Are you against that? Are you for it? What does that look like? I absolutely love that. And the men that I, I'm a man of like very few friends. Yeah. But the friends that I do have are, I feel like I can open up to especially like I feel like this at least a good three or four that I can tell from the top of my head that I can be like one hundred and ten percent open. Yeah. And also like they know me. Yeah. Like even if I'm trying to put on a front, they know like, yo, you know what I'm like my bro, big bro, Baba. Like he has a studio downtown. So it's like, I'm always there for the most part. But whenever something is a bit off. Yeah. Automatically, like we'll pick it up. I don't mind. Yeah, he's going through and I'm well, you're going to be fine. You know what I'm saying? But I'm very big on the idea of community. I think I actually wanted to create like a community myself with like just men. Yeah. Like a men's group. We just talk about a lot of the things that I feel like we deal with and kind of like create like a support group in our sons. But yeah, I think it's essential because it is also good to have men that push you to become the best version of yourself. So for me, I like surrounded myself with people that are, you know, like educating themselves, people that are, you know, financially, you know, thriving people that are, you know, I also like surrounded myself with people that are in relationships. I don't like surrounded myself with women that are just out here in the streets because I really and truly, it just you can be the strongest person. But you are only as strong as the people you surround yourself with. That's true. Because, you know, and so the type of men that I want to be, I don't want to be out there when I'm married. I don't want, so I'm practicing how to be the best version now. So it's not so much of like a shock when it does happen. Yeah, because it can be a little crazy. And I know myself, like I genuinely know myself, like I'm not perfect. And I know if I'm in certain environments, I'm going to automatically like adapt to the way, not necessarily adapt, but I'm going to get tempted. You know what I'm saying? And I don't want to put myself in those situations if I can like control it. Okay. So if you could share like manhood 101 from your perspective then for how men could get okay, if they're not okay, what are like five, three to five things that you would say or advice you give? Three to five things. One, I would say is be brutally honest with yourself. Okay. Right. Two, I would say stop consuming porn. Okay. And I know this is difficult for a lot of men, but like it is one of the most destructive things you can ever do. Yeah. Because not only does it like fry your brain, but it completely changes the way you look at women. It does. You will like only like objectify a woman, you know what I'm saying? And I feel like it just it leads to you picking the wrong partners because you constantly are controlled by lust. Yeah. And so that in itself, it's super, super, super, super important. Three, I would say it's around yourself what like minded men or men that you would want to become. Yeah. You know, and there's nothing wrong with having a mentor. So and number four, I would say therapy also is amazing. I love the idea of being able to have someone that you can talk about all your things that you can't talk about with anybody else. Yeah. And five is at any moment, at any moment, at any point in life, be the most fit. Personally, you can possibly become fitness should not be an option. Like that should be that's a basic, basic, basic necessity that every single man or every single man that wants to be the best version of themselves, you have to be fit. No matter how much money you have, no matter how much at the end of the day, if you're not fit, I guarantee you there's just a certain level of respect that people don't have for you. And that's that's a fact. And I made a video talking about like the body positivity movement only applies to women because it does as a man. Really? Yes. Oh, it's okay. It's okay. Tell me because men will tell you like men, the woman, honestly, you're right. Take that back. Yes. It only applies to women. It only applies to women. Like men, men, men size up other men. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I, and it's like, you can try to be like, oh, I love my body. I look, but if you're not comfortable to where you want to be, no matter how much you're trying to shield, how much you're trying to hide that, it will always so. Yeah. Like women are a bit sneaky in the sense, but men, you can't hide that. Like I can look at you. I can look at a man right now. If I look at you in your eyes, I can tell if you're trying to hide something like legit, I can tell if you're confident or not. Yeah. Because they won't be able to like hold eye contact with somebody. I could also say sure that is, that is from the middle perspective. I like to say from the body parts to the perspective for women. Men have no excuse because at least women in some ways can argue hormones, different things, your energy, your body, your fitness, PCOS, PMDD. So, but men, please, as I already mentioned, about like, oh, man, go through PMDD as well. Oh, please. There's no excuse. Absolutely no excuse. You're right. You're right. I get that. Okay. So, we're going to talk a little bit, just a little bit about women and dating and accountability. I feel like we've already touched upon this a little bit and conversations we've had. But what's the one thing you wish women understood about the pressure men are under? That in this DNA age, like men feel very belirled. Really? Yeah. A lot of especially within our communities, because I feel as though, how would I call it? How would I say this? Like, within the black community for per se, a lot of the media outlets, I feel as though are benefiting from that constant friction of like men and in a sense, I see it in multitude of things. One, I feel as though is the idea of like, oh, black men don't date black women or black men don't marry black women. Which is not true, by the way. Satisfaction is the craziest thing. But if you're looking on social media, if you're looking on these platforms, that's all you see. Because what they know that if I post this, I'm going to get the level of engagement that is no other. All you see in the comments is like, oh, black women, oh, yeah, I'm not surprised. I'm not. And so subconscious, you kind of have in black women why have this thought in their mind that like, oh, black men don't like black women or especially dark skinned men, God forbid. I remember a couple of times. I thought I didn't think I'll be honest. I didn't think you like black women. I didn't think I didn't think about that. That's the, that's the thing. Why would you, what made you think that? I don't know. Have you ever seen me with? No, I've no actually, actually, but you know what I'm saying? But it is the thing where it's like, they have this, like, this, this, this, this thought that like, oh, if he dark skinned, he likes to, he definitely don't go for it. But I'm just like, I think it's a self-hatred thing though. I think it's a, for women and the men, but I also described that, but I also feel like it's brainwashing as well by these media platforms. Yeah, because like I said, that constant friction is profit to them. But it's like a couple of times I went, like, the sage don't posted me and a couple of other guys and it's like, all in the comments, but does he like black women? Does he? I absolutely love black women. Like, I absolutely adore and love black women. Like, I haven't, like, I wouldn't want to be with anybody else other than black women. You know what I'm saying? Because I feel like, so like, there's so many different choice, so many different flip black women are just amazing. Like honestly, like black women are really amazing. And so I don't, so that idea of like, oh, it's just, it's so annoying. It's so annoying. And I think people feed into that too. Because when you see online, you just see like, or the dark singer, the successful guy goes to the light skater woman, I will say from a social sociological perspective that we see that happen because in those spaces of high success, people who are your race, especially in America, don't look like you. So it's harder for a black man who might be like fortune 500 CEO person or whatever to find someone who's his peer. Yeah. In a way, on those ways, like the basketball players who are like, you know, famous and doing all these big things and then like trying to date Tracy Ellis Ross says the same thing too when she's talking about dating at her age and seeing like, it's hard when you get to a certain point. Especially in the majority white country, you're already going through racism and colorism and all this other shit within your community. Well, you've passed that bubble of your community right now, bigger. You're in a smaller pool of eligible people who look like you. Yeah. Because if you think of African men in Africa, how many African women do you think you've got my wife? And even in America as well. Yeah. It's not much. It's not. You don't see black couples get plastered online as much nearly as much as like interracial couples and also the double standard as well. Yeah. Because if a black woman is a married white man, it's like, oh, since go get your coin, I love that. Go away. You appreciate it. And it's just like, the double standards is crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. I am so that too. It's crazy. Trust me. You don't got to tell me that. I know that for sure. Oh, yeah, girl. You definitely that white man saying carry you. Yeah. Go get your coins. Go get it. Go away. You appreciate it. It's like, I was like, again, I think, I think I always say like my because as a creator, let me say this as a creator. One of my biggest things I told black creators when they talk about non-getting, engaging or not being as successful as their white peers, I say, if you look at the pool you're pulling from, you're a minority. Yeah. So you're never going to be as successful as the white people because you're you're playing in their market. Yeah. You're playing in the American market. You're going to be put in a box because they're in charge. Absolutely. If you were in Nigeria, South Africa, Kenya, Gambia, Center, you will be successful because you're playing in the majority market. Yeah. And so I say that again, within the dating pool and relationships in America too, it is going to be hard because you're already playing in the minority and you're not adding a minority where you're constantly put you guys in the streets in the hood. You're struggling with so much already that it's even going to be harder. So it's very, very important for us to show elevated visuals or what black love is and black couples. And I think it's happening. You still see a lot of black families now, which I love. I'm like, okay, whenever I say a black couple, I'm like, yes, like we need to show more black love because the sentiment is that black men don't love black women is an absolute lie. That is definitely not true. I think what you see on media as well, America wants you to see because again, it's a very multicultural society allegedly. Okay, last thing I'm going to talk about this and I'm going to a fun game is what is one hard truth that you've had to swallow in relationships about the kind of man you are versus the kind of man you thought you were. That I always wasn't what I call what I say it is. Let me let me think about it. We can't turn. I was thinking about it can be happening away guys. I think the way that I would speak when I'm mad. It was very destructive. In a sense that I didn't necessarily, I wouldn't think too much about the implications of some of the things that I might say. It wasn't until someone told me like, yo, just look at how you just act in right now. I had to do some really deep internal work to understand. I'm like, damn, this is actually this is not and it wasn't like nothing too crazy but it was just like I can go from zero. I could before go from zero to 100 and then 30 minutes later, I'm like, cool off. You know what I'm saying? So now I'm a lot more, I don't even get angry really when I'm talking because I'm just like, there's really no need. So I just like, if I need to school off, let me just cool off a little bit and then communicate with my open mind. I suppose to act enough of emotions. I love that. You know, it's crazy. I also struggle with that. Like I am a crazy talker when I'm upset. Like I just did, I didn't realize how much I would say. I'm a very hyper ballistic human and if that's a real word, but I would be like, I hate this. I'm so overwhelmed. I'd be like, did you really feel that way? It was just emotions in a moment. So I love that you shared that. Okay. We are done with the loud guest seat. And so we're going to get into some fun questions. This is a game called what men say versus what they mean. Okay. I'm going to reclassic lines and you have to translate it. Okay. And think about this from perspective of have a man. Yes. Okay. And you can say in the good way, you can say the battery can give us options of what they could potentially mean. And I'm doing this for the girls who like men. Okay. You ready? Okay. I'm just really busy right now. I can't talk. It means I'm busy. No, because doesn't really mean that was just a person that's not interested in you. No, it depends. It depends. Because sometimes it could be how often is this person busy? Because I felt as though it takes five seconds to call me like, hey, I'm, you know, there's a real part of it. I'll call you or at least communicate it ahead of time. But if you just ghost and then like don't say nothing, that's crazy. That's terrible communication. So speak it a little bit like use your communicate. Yeah. Okay. I'm not I'm not ready for a relationship. It depends on. Like it depends. Because it's like Ayah was the was the relationship like Ayah physical Ayah. Like let's assume they're physical. They're in a situation. If the person keeps saying they're not ready for a relationship. Okay. If they're not ready for a relationship or they still, if they're not ready for a relationship and they still get in physical with the person, then it's that's just some bullshit. That's excuses. Because if you're not ready for a relationship, what are you doing? Then you should not be sexually involved. What is the reason why you are not ready for a relationship? Yeah. And if that's the case, then cut the whole thing, work on yourself until you're ready. And then Are you all listening? So when I say it, it's a problem. Yeah, listen now. I'm not just really good at texting. Yeah. It means they're not good at texting. I'm not the best at texting. He's not. I'm not the best at texting. Like I would go day sometimes and I would say that I do. But next. Yeah. I'm more of a call type of person. So it depends. Are they calling us often or they just not texting at all? Like, you know, so. Okay. I don't do birthdays when I in the groceries like that. He's African. Listen, I, I'm terrible with birthdays. Really? Yeah. I'm terrible for your significant other. Would you do the effort to make it special for them? I would. I would. Okay. Okay. I'm very big on celebrating people. I, I can't show you the pop. I actually don't like celebrating myself. Yeah. So it's just like I sometimes feel awkward. I'm like, I don't, I don't even want to be celebrated for real. But I'm doing, I'm trying my best and I understand that like the things that I don't care about other people might care about like Valentine's and all of these things. Yeah. I could give two sets of about. But, you know, okay. Okay. Alright. That is it. Okay, guys. That is the end of today's episode. Oh, we're still going to be doing part fan hotline. If we're not this episode, but for I think it's all one coming up where you guys send in your voice and also go to amitela.com and send me questions so you I can play on here and react to some stuff. But guys, before we go, I always ask my guests to look directly into the camera and you're going to have yourself up. Okay. So you're going to talk your ish essentially. Um, folks have said, I might too loud. If I say I'm the most successful creator on the planet, I work really hard. Folks have said, I might too loud. If I say I'm better than Kanye West, like stuff like that. You can go as long as you want. You can go as short as you want. Just hype yourself up. And you can start with I might too loud. Yeah. I'm out too loud. If I say I'm one of the most fascinating book creators there are. Or there is. Is it supposed to be there or there are? They are. They are. Whatever. English is not my first language. But yeah. Like keep going. Gotta keep going. Want to hear all of it. Most of them. Yeah. Like hype yourself up. Like talk your ish. Um, it's so funny how mostly wherever time we get to this where they were like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let me see. Let me see. I think I'm the most like integrity driven, open and positive content creator there is. Period. I'm not too loud. If I say that I think I'm one of the most like positive voices within the African community when it comes to content. Nothing. I like that. I like that. I'll take it. I'll take it. Thanks Mo for hanging out with me today. That is the end of a MySoulow. The podcast with Sophie aka the mother freaking Audity. If you made it this far, you're officially a pod fan. You're stuck with me now. Don't forget to follow the podcast. Mo, where can they follow you online? You can follow me on Instagram at swaggy underscore m o tick tock swaggy underscore mo underscore and youtube. The real swaggy mo. What I just want to say is I'm killing. Yeah. If I'm killing. I'm killing. But honestly, like I'm so proud of you. No seriously. Like you are an absolute powerhouse. Like I don't think you're under like it's just this is. I feel so comfortable. So relaxed and energy like your positive energy just exudes. Like I'm super super proud of you. And I appreciate it. I see this going so so far. Because I've really never do podcasts. Yeah. But I was very worried when I texted you, I was like, I hope you said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, no, absolutely. I'm like like really grateful that you chose me to talk to you about this. No, I feel like it was a necessary conversation because I don't think I will be very honest. I'm not the biggest like, oh, yeah, manhood. I'm all, you know, I'm all about like women and just I'm fine. They're ourselves invisibility, but I will be doing myself in my community at the service. If I don't hear the perspective of a man who's working towards being a better man, no better person or anything like a better man. What does manhood mean for people? How can women listen to a man who's working on himself and see what that looks like? A positive mindset, positive role model, especially an African man. Because we don't hear that at all. And it's important to me too. So I appreciate you coming here. Of course. It was a really good conversation. I can't wait for the edit. And I'll see you guys later in the next episode. Bye guys. If you enjoyed this video, you're going to like this one right here.